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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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for the 11th of june

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episode 86 richard saunders here with

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you once again

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on this week's show we have an interview

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conducted by kylie sturgis with

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professor david blair from western

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australia all about cosmology gravity

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art

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all sorts of uh interesting things i

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hope you'll enjoy it and that's followed

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by the think tank with myself dr rachie

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and jason otherwise known as

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drunken madman

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thank you for all those people writing

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and letting me know how much you enjoy

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the show and if you really do enjoy the

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show why not tell your friends tell your

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family tell your pets and tell your

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enemies

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the more listeners we get the better it

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is for everybody i think so if you enjoy

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the show please don't be shy help us

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spread the word but for now

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grab that cup of earl grey tea hot

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i'm carly sturgis and i'm talking to

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professor david blair

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physicist and professor of physics at

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the university of western australia and

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he is the director of the australian

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international gravitational research

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center

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the gravity discovery centre is a

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premier science education centre in

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western australia for physics and

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astronomy and it is the only centre in

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australia with a focus on gravity and

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cosmology

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it is well known as a tourism

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destination

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and it is a place that manages to bring

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not only science but art and religion

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together

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due to lack of government funding the

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gravity discovery center is under threat

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so i hope that this interview with

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professor david blair helps raise some

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awareness

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i'm here with professor david blair the

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director of the australian international

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gravitational research centre

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the australian international

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gravitational observation site is at

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qinjin which is about an hour north from

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where we are right now in the physics

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building at the university of western

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australia

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the gravity discovery centre at the igo

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site is open to the public and draws

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tens of thousands of visitors and one

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fascinating aspect is the cosmology

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gallery thank you very much for joining

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me here today professor david blair i'm

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pleased to be with you how did the

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cosmology gallery come to be here in

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perth

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well

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about 10 years ago we started to plan a

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public education centre

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and we

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did lots of brainstorming and

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came up with a set of themes for this

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center

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and we wanted to make use of all the

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special attributes of our site and the

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special attributes of the site are

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fantastic clear sky a great place for a

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building a gravitational wave detector

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because it's flat

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fantastic biodiversity it's one of these

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wonderful rich places where every plant

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looks quite extraordinary and

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and very beautiful

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and

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that we called the discovery gallery we

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wanted to have a gallery that we called

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the innovation gallery

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innovation gallery was going to be about

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how western australians have made

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innovations have invented things a world

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significance because often west

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australians don't know what their people

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have done and what we wanted to do was

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to empower young people so you can do

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something of world significance but then

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also we wanted to get that sort of

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inspirational aspect of the

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um

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of why are we astronomers why do we why

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do we want to know this

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and uh and try to find some commonality

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between the

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traditional owners of our site who we

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have a very good relationship with who

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who are people who are brought up with

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the dream time

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who believe in the wobble that created

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the landscape and so how could we put

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together something that was about our

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science but also

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um that was consistent with their

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beliefs and i guess i always believed

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that that we didn't have to

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be in uh in conflict i've alwa i've

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always believed uh that

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i've always been interested in religion

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and in uh different religions and uh

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and i've always thought to myself that

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you know

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billion christians being right and the

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other six billion in the world be five

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billion people of other

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religions and beliefs being wrong or uh

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and anything of that so there had to be

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some commonality

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so we came up with the idea and in fact

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it's a slogan no really that we use for

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the cosmology gallery which is

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unity through diversity

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in a vast and awe-inspiring universe yes

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and the and with the commonality

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is

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human yearning to understand our place

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in the universe

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and so the unity is our unity of that

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yearning that all human beings yearn to

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understand their place in the universe

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they try to find the answers and they

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find the answers in different ways

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nowadays we have tools that have let us

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find with telescopes and things to find

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a much more precise answer but

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across civilizations you find a range of

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answers

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i also believe that if you put all those

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answers together and let them

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be seen together

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it allows people to to understand that

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those ideas are are stories

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which are trying to interpret

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the truth of what people observe

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and uh you don't and people will tend

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not to take them all literally

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if you see them all together so

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so we were lucky enough to get funding

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yeah and to build this amazing place

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i uh funny thing is when i was a child

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when i was about 16 i did something very

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crazy to think of it now i think it's

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really crazy i designed a church and

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designed a cathedral and i sent it to

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the archbishop

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and said hey here's a great design for a

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cathedral why don't you build it

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and so i felt incredibly privileged to

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be able to be in a position to actually

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do something that i had yearned about as

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a kid and to create some a place that

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could

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uh be the venue for

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getting that sort of inspirational

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thinking going ahead and then we were

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got funding from the uh lotteries

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lottery west to

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hire artists to

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from different cultural backgrounds and

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we had our workshop sessions with the

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artists and we talked about the

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scientific ideas and about the their own

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ideas and the fact that all their

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artworks were going to be put together

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and we were trying to find some

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commonality

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while still staying true to their

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traditions

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so the result was that we've come we've

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got this beautiful gallery

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dream time images there's

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a wonderful hindu image there's a

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wonderful buddhist mandala

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all sorts of different

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images that reflect the different

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cultural traditions plus the scientific

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history of the universe as we understand

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it all put together and it's separated

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by the floors i noticed that downstairs

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has penrose tiling which i believe you

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even had the man himself come to yes yes

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yeah yeah

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the place we haven't been trying to be

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too uh

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too fixed in that yeah and then the

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gallery has a huge dome yes the dome

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itself is the largest bucky ball in the

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world icosahedron yeah and the

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nice thing about that that shape is is

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history uh first of all pythagoras

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uh described that shape

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when he would add when he believed that

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the uh secret of the universe

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was in geometry

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and then

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leonardo drew it

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and then bar minister fuller patented it

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for use in soccer balls yeah so this is

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you know millennium after millennium but

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then 1985 it was discovered in nature so

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in the sense pythagoras was right there

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it was in nature actually existing and

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that's the these little fullerene

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molecules made out of carbon called

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carbon 60. so

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and that has a beautiful similar five

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and six fold symmetry

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and

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underneath the penrose tiling which is

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non-periodic but still has a five-fold

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symmetry and it represents the sort of

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pinnacle of mathematics today

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so we've created that connection and it

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even includes

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the soccer ball and popular culture

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all within the one amazing gallery

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now if people want to find out more

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about the site and the activities there

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where do they go we have a

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there's a really good website but

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there's also

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a nice web page which is called

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that is the web page for the

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gravitational wave observatory

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because

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really now what we're trying to do is

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consolidate our education programs we're

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just starting a fantastic phd project

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there where we're going to have four

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phds who are working on evaluating the

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different ways that we are teaching

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and one of the ways we're teaching is

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having kids involved in using a big

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telescope

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to detect gamma-ray bursts which we

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think are sources of gravity waves which

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we think are black holes being formed in

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the early universe

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and we let and

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we and by linking up with satellites we

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can

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and see these gamma-ray bursts which are

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occurring

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when the universe was about 1 billion

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years old in other words

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more than 10 billion years ago more than

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twice the age of the earth they go so

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one of the ways we're trying to excite

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kids is to

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let them

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realize that they're actually able to

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see life that was emitted

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twice the age of the earth a go

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and seeing into the past and kind of

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getting those amazing ideas of astronomy

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what has been the overall response in

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regards to this because it seems to be

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quite unique and even quite challenging

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for some people i guess to have both the

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science and religious world views

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combined in one place yeah well i've

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actually been quite surprised that

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nobody has complained since we built it

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but before we built it uh when i was

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talking to a physicist who comes from

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southern united states

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he said this is a terrible mistake don't

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00:12:10,150 --> 00:12:07,839
even think about building this he said

287
00:12:12,790 --> 00:12:10,160
you'll have creationists coming in and

288
00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:12,800
desecrating it and

289
00:12:18,629 --> 00:12:16,079
you'll create religious disharmony

290
00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:18,639
there's been no sign whatsoever of that

291
00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:20,160
here perhaps that would happen in

292
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:23,200
southern usa but it's been great here

293
00:12:27,269 --> 00:12:24,800
that there's been

294
00:12:29,350 --> 00:12:27,279
no complaints whatsoever about putting

295
00:12:30,550 --> 00:12:29,360
these ideas together

296
00:12:31,910 --> 00:12:30,560
now what are some of the other future

297
00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:31,920
plans for the site what can we look

298
00:12:35,110 --> 00:12:33,360
forward to if we

299
00:12:36,629 --> 00:12:35,120
go and see it again

300
00:12:38,389 --> 00:12:36,639
the the other

301
00:12:40,710 --> 00:12:38,399
piece that's there was the bit that was

302
00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:40,720
to be the wow factor for the

303
00:12:44,150 --> 00:12:42,160
teenage kids

304
00:12:47,110 --> 00:12:44,160
and that's the leaning tower of jinjin

305
00:12:50,069 --> 00:12:47,120
yes i've went up at 222 steps it was

306
00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:50,079
quite an experience yeah and uh and it's

307
00:12:53,350 --> 00:12:52,480
wonderful to look at classes of school

308
00:12:55,750 --> 00:12:53,360
kids

309
00:12:58,629 --> 00:12:55,760
up there having carried balloons full of

310
00:13:02,069 --> 00:12:58,639
water at the top and then dropping these

311
00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:02,079
balloons repeating galileo's experiments

312
00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:04,079
i think the idea behind that is also

313
00:13:08,949 --> 00:13:06,720
quite fun which is that we are

314
00:13:11,110 --> 00:13:08,959
because we are trying to promote a sort

315
00:13:13,030 --> 00:13:11,120
of skeptical scientific view of the

316
00:13:15,110 --> 00:13:13,040
world and in this case we've turned the

317
00:13:18,310 --> 00:13:15,120
tables on galileo

318
00:13:21,110 --> 00:13:18,320
because galileo said in his writings

319
00:13:23,990 --> 00:13:21,120
if you were to drop two things from the

320
00:13:25,269 --> 00:13:24,000
leaning tower of pisa and if they were

321
00:13:27,910 --> 00:13:25,279
to land

322
00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:27,920
two fingers widths apart

323
00:13:32,389 --> 00:13:31,200
in in their four at the point of impact

324
00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:32,399
would you

325
00:13:37,110 --> 00:13:34,720
say that the aristotelians

326
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:37,120
were correct because the aristotelians

327
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:39,760
the followers of aristotle believed that

328
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:41,760
things fell at a speed proportional to

329
00:13:46,069 --> 00:13:44,000
their mass

330
00:13:49,269 --> 00:13:46,079
well you don't actually need

331
00:13:50,470 --> 00:13:49,279
a leaning tower to convince yourself

332
00:13:53,829 --> 00:13:50,480
that

333
00:13:54,790 --> 00:13:53,839
um you know a one kilo rock

334
00:13:57,030 --> 00:13:54,800
uh

335
00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:57,040
doesn't fall twice as fast as a half

336
00:14:00,550 --> 00:13:58,560
kilo rock you just have to drop them

337
00:14:03,509 --> 00:14:00,560
both on your toes and they'll both hurt

338
00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:03,519
at the same time but at the same time

339
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:05,760
that was galileo's

340
00:14:08,389 --> 00:14:07,279
argument

341
00:14:10,550 --> 00:14:08,399
and

342
00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:10,560
we asked the kids to go up there with

343
00:14:13,910 --> 00:14:12,240
identical balloons

344
00:14:15,829 --> 00:14:13,920
and see if they can make them land

345
00:14:18,069 --> 00:14:15,839
within two fingers widths of each other

346
00:14:19,750 --> 00:14:18,079
yeah they can't do it

347
00:14:24,069 --> 00:14:19,760
it can't be done

348
00:14:24,870 --> 00:14:24,079
human reflexes

349
00:14:26,629 --> 00:14:24,880
are

350
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:26,639
slightly asymmetric because we've got

351
00:14:31,030 --> 00:14:28,560
asymmetric brains

352
00:14:33,030 --> 00:14:31,040
as a result he can't let go of two

353
00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:33,040
balloons simultaneously to within a

354
00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:35,760
millisecond which is what is required to

355
00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:38,480
achieve this two fingers widths

356
00:14:41,509 --> 00:14:39,680
and so

357
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:41,519
the kids go away

358
00:14:46,389 --> 00:14:44,399
saying well aris of galileo was not

359
00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:46,399
telling the truth

360
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:48,720
in the sense that he didn't actually do

361
00:14:53,269 --> 00:14:50,399
the experiment but

362
00:14:54,949 --> 00:14:53,279
but he didn't lie because he

363
00:14:56,389 --> 00:14:54,959
never claimed to have done the

364
00:14:58,710 --> 00:14:56,399
experiment

365
00:15:01,110 --> 00:14:58,720
in his writings it's actually written as

366
00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:01,120
a thought experiment so we can

367
00:15:04,629 --> 00:15:03,680
lord him as the first person who

368
00:15:05,509 --> 00:15:04,639
uh

369
00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:05,519
who

370
00:15:09,829 --> 00:15:07,760
at least published a thought experiment

371
00:15:11,910 --> 00:15:09,839
and made deductions on the basis of a

372
00:15:13,350 --> 00:15:11,920
thought experiment

373
00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:13,360
but

374
00:15:18,550 --> 00:15:15,600
still the kids turned the tables on

375
00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:18,560
galileo and are able to say he could not

376
00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:20,480
have done that experiment

377
00:15:24,310 --> 00:15:22,160
now if people want to find out more

378
00:15:26,790 --> 00:15:24,320
about the site and the activities there

379
00:15:29,189 --> 00:15:26,800
where do they go we have a

380
00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:29,199
there's a really good website which is

381
00:15:33,030 --> 00:15:31,120
gravity

382
00:15:35,829 --> 00:15:33,040
center

383
00:15:37,509 --> 00:15:35,839
not

384
00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:37,519
try to give you a web address but

385
00:15:42,150 --> 00:15:39,040
there's also

386
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:42,160
a nice web page which is called

387
00:15:49,670 --> 00:15:47,509
that is the web page for the

388
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:49,680
gravitational wave observatory

389
00:15:52,470 --> 00:15:50,639
because

390
00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:52,480
really now what we're trying to do is

391
00:15:57,990 --> 00:15:55,040
consolidate our education programs we're

392
00:15:59,670 --> 00:15:58,000
just starting a fantastic phd project

393
00:16:04,310 --> 00:15:59,680
there where we're going to have four

394
00:16:06,550 --> 00:16:04,320
phds who are working on evaluating the

395
00:16:07,990 --> 00:16:06,560
different ways that we are teaching

396
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:08,000
and one of the ways we're teaching is

397
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:10,079
having kids involved in using a big

398
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:13,519
telescope to detect gamma-ray bursts

399
00:16:17,189 --> 00:16:15,360
which we think are sources of gravity

400
00:16:19,269 --> 00:16:17,199
waves which we think are black holes

401
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:19,279
being formed in the early universe

402
00:16:23,829 --> 00:16:20,880
and we're let and

403
00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:23,839
we and by linking up with satellites we

404
00:16:30,310 --> 00:16:25,199
can

405
00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:30,320
and see these gamma-ray bursts which are

406
00:16:34,150 --> 00:16:31,600
occurring

407
00:16:37,350 --> 00:16:34,160
when the universe was about 1 billion

408
00:16:39,269 --> 00:16:37,360
years old in other words of more than 10

409
00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:39,279
billion years ago more than twice the

410
00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:41,360
age of the earth they got so one of the

411
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:44,880
ways we're trying to excite kids is to

412
00:16:47,990 --> 00:16:46,000
let them

413
00:16:51,269 --> 00:16:48,000
realize that they're actually able to

414
00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:51,279
see life that was emitted twice the age

415
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:53,279
of the earth ago

416
00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:55,519
and seeing into the past and kind of

417
00:17:02,550 --> 00:16:58,880
getting those amazing ideas of astronomy

418
00:17:03,990 --> 00:17:02,560
uh as part of their actual experience

419
00:17:06,789 --> 00:17:04,000
so it's all happening here right here in

420
00:17:10,069 --> 00:17:08,309
to find out more about the gravity

421
00:17:14,789 --> 00:17:10,079
discovery center head to

422
00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:17,429
if you head to my site at podblack.com

423
00:17:31,990 --> 00:17:20,400
you'll even find a video of me going up

424
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:33,990
astronomy cast takes a fact-based

425
00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:36,080
journey through the cosmos as it offers

426
00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:37,760
listeners weekly discussions on

427
00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:40,400
astronomical topics ranging from planets

428
00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:41,840
to cosmology

429
00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:44,240
hosted by fraser kane of universe today

430
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:46,240
and myself dr pamela gay of southern

431
00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:48,640
illinois university edwardsville this

432
00:17:52,150 --> 00:17:50,400
show brings the questions of an avid

433
00:17:54,870 --> 00:17:52,160
astronomy lover directly to an

434
00:17:56,710 --> 00:17:54,880
astronomer together fraser and i explore

435
00:17:58,470 --> 00:17:56,720
what is known and being discovered about

436
00:18:00,390 --> 00:17:58,480
the universe around us

437
00:18:02,070 --> 00:18:00,400
join us each week as we take a fact

438
00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:02,080
space journey through the cosmos at

439
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:14,070
join us now for drinking skeptically in

440
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:35,270
on the banjo

441
00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:37,430
and we were just uh hi george rob we

442
00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:38,960
were just watching and listening to your

443
00:18:45,350 --> 00:18:40,880
fantastic video far one of the best

444
00:18:47,830 --> 00:18:45,360
videos uh on the internet by far by far

445
00:18:50,549 --> 00:18:47,840
by far jason hi jason good evening

446
00:18:53,669 --> 00:18:50,559
richard good evening and hello dr agee

447
00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:53,679
hello richard hi jason hello now

448
00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:55,520
normally we're doing the um the think

449
00:18:59,029 --> 00:18:57,520
tank from our favorite club down the

450
00:19:00,070 --> 00:18:59,039
street but our favorite club down the

451
00:19:01,510 --> 00:19:00,080
street is

452
00:19:03,830 --> 00:19:01,520
well not really let us down but they

453
00:19:06,150 --> 00:19:03,840
were rather packed tonight dr h yeah

454
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:06,160
they had some show on called

455
00:19:10,870 --> 00:19:08,640
el divo el daigo

456
00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:10,880
something like that yeah it was the one

457
00:19:13,430 --> 00:19:12,400
that's going to work as in the sort of

458
00:19:15,110 --> 00:19:13,440
the uh

459
00:19:17,190 --> 00:19:15,120
pejorative term for a spanish person

460
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:17,200
yeah well it's um

461
00:19:21,110 --> 00:19:19,200
there's a comedy group here who do send

462
00:19:22,870 --> 00:19:21,120
up with their own heritage their greek

463
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:22,880
heritage they call them wogs out of work

464
00:19:27,430 --> 00:19:25,200
or the [\h__\h] boy or something like that

465
00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:27,440
so lots of people at the club

466
00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:30,000
we searched high and low but decided to

467
00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:32,160
finally end up here in dr he's front

468
00:19:36,830 --> 00:19:33,919
room

469
00:19:39,750 --> 00:19:36,840
never mind cheers

470
00:19:41,510 --> 00:19:39,760
cheers cheese thank you

471
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:41,520
one of those is a bit plasticky it's a

472
00:19:44,789 --> 00:19:42,960
bit plastic

473
00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:44,799
but we're um

474
00:19:49,909 --> 00:19:46,559
never fear we're sitting here having a

475
00:19:52,789 --> 00:19:49,919
good time and waiting for our pizza

476
00:19:55,830 --> 00:19:52,799
mexican and supreme crust delicious

477
00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:55,840
pizza delicious crusty pizza

478
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:58,240
it's um it's great to be here in

479
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:00,480
rachel's front room think tank which

480
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:02,880
we've done before rachel

481
00:20:07,510 --> 00:20:05,280
we've done it once before richard but um

482
00:20:09,909 --> 00:20:07,520
yeah some time ago actually was when we

483
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:09,919
had kylie on skype on skype yeah and we

484
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:12,240
did a think tank with kylie via skype

485
00:20:17,669 --> 00:20:14,640
from perth yeah very technological of

486
00:20:19,669 --> 00:20:17,679
you was very technological

487
00:20:22,549 --> 00:20:19,679
now tonight we're going to be covering

488
00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:22,559
such um issues as homeopathy we're going

489
00:20:26,870 --> 00:20:24,880
to be talking to jason about um

490
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:26,880
a tam australia event we're going to be

491
00:20:30,870 --> 00:20:28,960
listening to the planes flying overhead

492
00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:30,880
which i can sort of just hear one now

493
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:32,640
that's them landing actually orlando

494
00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:37,510
you know too much

495
00:20:41,669 --> 00:20:40,080
i do i'm going to start off by

496
00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:41,679
covering a story which was brought to my

497
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:43,919
attention by one of our listeners uh

498
00:20:49,350 --> 00:20:47,039
thanks to glenn baker glenn baker

499
00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:49,360
who actually works at the a in uh

500
00:20:54,549 --> 00:20:52,240
stadium here in sydney and this story is

501
00:20:56,950 --> 00:20:54,559
to do with the our good old friends at

502
00:20:59,270 --> 00:20:56,960
the power balance a

503
00:21:01,669 --> 00:20:59,280
magical bracelet that gives you magical

504
00:21:02,470 --> 00:21:01,679
energy and all the rest of it

505
00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:02,480
and

506
00:21:07,270 --> 00:21:04,960
glenn brought my attention to the daily

507
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:07,280
telegraph newspaper

508
00:21:13,029 --> 00:21:09,840
dated the 10th of june

509
00:21:15,270 --> 00:21:13,039
on the whole back page a huge section of

510
00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:15,280
the back page i should say most of it

511
00:21:19,750 --> 00:21:17,679
is dedicated to a story

512
00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:19,760
when which is normally the sports

513
00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:22,080
section so it's a sports story when all

514
00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:25,280
else fails the blues turn to a

515
00:21:29,110 --> 00:21:26,880
band aid

516
00:21:31,110 --> 00:21:29,120
big picture of the new south wales rugby

517
00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:31,120
league team who aren't doing too well at

518
00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:32,240
the moment

519
00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:34,320
and about half of them are wearing this

520
00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:37,600
power balance um

521
00:21:40,070 --> 00:21:38,640
device

522
00:21:42,149 --> 00:21:40,080
i noticed they've got little visual

523
00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:42,159
call-outs on the wrists yeah you can see

524
00:21:46,470 --> 00:21:44,480
how many of them are wearing it

525
00:21:48,470 --> 00:21:46,480
um

526
00:21:49,510 --> 00:21:48,480
now they as i said they're not doing too

527
00:21:51,669 --> 00:21:49,520
well

528
00:21:53,750 --> 00:21:51,679
and the

529
00:21:57,430 --> 00:21:53,760
report says um

530
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:57,440
call them our last desperate play

531
00:22:00,789 --> 00:21:58,960
thousand four hundred dollar mix of

532
00:22:03,510 --> 00:22:00,799
science silicon

533
00:22:05,270 --> 00:22:03,520
what what's up how many how many dollars

534
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:05,280
two thousand four hundred it says here

535
00:22:08,870 --> 00:22:07,200
that must be the value of the box they

536
00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:08,880
sent them

537
00:22:13,669 --> 00:22:11,520
uh silicon uh the one around the wrist

538
00:22:16,310 --> 00:22:13,679
of every new south wales origin player

539
00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:16,320
now the origin that means that every

540
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:18,240
year there are a series of games between

541
00:22:22,390 --> 00:22:20,559
this state new south wales and

542
00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:22,400
queensland the state to our north in

543
00:22:26,470 --> 00:22:24,640
rugby league and the new south wales

544
00:22:29,669 --> 00:22:26,480
team aren't doing very well

545
00:22:32,870 --> 00:22:29,679
so they've been sent a box of power

546
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:32,880
balance bracelets to wear

547
00:22:34,789 --> 00:22:34,000
yeah

548
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:34,799
and

549
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:38,880
as a marketing ploy it's it's worked

550
00:22:43,669 --> 00:22:40,799
better than your wildest dreams because

551
00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:43,679
it's not only the whole back page

552
00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:45,200
with photographs of the team wearing

553
00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:46,480
this

554
00:22:52,149 --> 00:22:48,240
power balance

555
00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:52,159
but half a page in in the sports section

556
00:22:56,870 --> 00:22:54,320
it's also another story about the same

557
00:22:59,510 --> 00:22:56,880
thing blues band of brothers

558
00:23:01,510 --> 00:22:59,520
they've been likened to superman's cape

559
00:23:03,110 --> 00:23:01,520
only the new south wales origin players

560
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:03,120
won't need to go running into a phone

561
00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:05,360
box before putting them on the daily

562
00:23:09,909 --> 00:23:07,120
telegraph can reveal that the blues

563
00:23:12,470 --> 00:23:09,919
officials have ordered in 40 power

564
00:23:15,110 --> 00:23:12,480
balance wristbands as part of a bizarre

565
00:23:16,549 --> 00:23:15,120
attempt to stop queensland winning a

566
00:23:20,390 --> 00:23:16,559
record fifth

567
00:23:22,870 --> 00:23:20,400
uh consecutive state of origin series

568
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:22,880
so they're like superman's cake

569
00:23:25,750 --> 00:23:24,240
because we know from the incredibles

570
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:25,760
that the cape is a major health and

571
00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:27,200
safety problem

572
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:29,120
and it can get you sucked into aeroplane

573
00:23:32,950 --> 00:23:31,200
engines which i think figuratively new

574
00:23:35,029 --> 00:23:32,960
south wales are gonna get

575
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:35,039
but isn't it also richard if they

576
00:23:39,350 --> 00:23:36,880
actually worked isn't this considered

577
00:23:41,909 --> 00:23:39,360
performance enhancing stuff therefore

578
00:23:44,230 --> 00:23:41,919
it's illegal this is a really good point

579
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:44,240
now if these things worked as claim in

580
00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:46,559
otherwise in other words they

581
00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:48,480
dramatically improve your balance your

582
00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:50,640
strength your stamina all the things

583
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:52,960
they claim about it then yes it's

584
00:23:58,310 --> 00:23:56,400
cheating it's it's blatant cheating if

585
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:58,320
they worked as claimed

586
00:24:01,350 --> 00:23:59,760
and that's the big if well the funny

587
00:24:04,149 --> 00:24:01,360
thing is i had a chance to look at the

588
00:24:05,909 --> 00:24:04,159
comments on this story online

589
00:24:07,909 --> 00:24:05,919
and most of the comments were derogatory

590
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:07,919
by the way most of them said well if

591
00:24:11,029 --> 00:24:09,120
you're that hopeless that you need a

592
00:24:12,789 --> 00:24:11,039
little plastic rubber band then you've

593
00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:12,799
got no chance

594
00:24:16,710 --> 00:24:14,640
and then the other comments were well

595
00:24:18,549 --> 00:24:16,720
this is tantamount to cheating if you're

596
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:18,559
going to use these things to

597
00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:20,640
enhance your performance

598
00:24:24,549 --> 00:24:22,960
that's up nearly a very good point and

599
00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:24,559
the other day i was sitting at home and

600
00:24:27,990 --> 00:24:26,240
a reporter from the sydney morning

601
00:24:29,430 --> 00:24:28,000
herald contacted me

602
00:24:31,190 --> 00:24:29,440
they're doing a story about this power

603
00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:31,200
balance

604
00:24:34,789 --> 00:24:33,120
and the reporter i must say i just can't

605
00:24:36,549 --> 00:24:34,799
recall her name but she sounded very

606
00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:36,559
skeptical she said but what about the

607
00:24:40,870 --> 00:24:39,440
claims that it it affects your body's

608
00:24:43,269 --> 00:24:40,880
biofilm and then she stopped and she

609
00:24:46,549 --> 00:24:43,279
said you know i did biology at school

610
00:24:48,870 --> 00:24:46,559
that sounds ridiculous

611
00:24:51,190 --> 00:24:48,880
i mean you mentioned before that this is

612
00:24:52,870 --> 00:24:51,200
a very very good marketing exercise and

613
00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:52,880
it's brilliant i mean this is how power

614
00:24:57,269 --> 00:24:54,880
balance targets what they do

615
00:24:58,830 --> 00:24:57,279
they give it to elite athletes they give

616
00:25:01,350 --> 00:24:58,840
it to basketballers they give it to

617
00:25:02,789 --> 00:25:01,360
swimmers similar to what life wave do

618
00:25:04,630 --> 00:25:02,799
those life wave patches that i've

619
00:25:06,549 --> 00:25:04,640
blogged about before

620
00:25:08,390 --> 00:25:06,559
and i've talked about on the zone

621
00:25:10,470 --> 00:25:08,400
months and months ago

622
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:10,480
and so once they have this legitimacy

623
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:12,720
led to them by elite sports players

624
00:25:16,630 --> 00:25:14,720
people think well they must work so

625
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:16,640
everyone's going to see for the next

626
00:25:19,830 --> 00:25:17,760
month

627
00:25:21,029 --> 00:25:19,840
the new south wales blues team playing

628
00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:21,039
with these things on their wrist and

629
00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:22,480
think well i want one of those because

630
00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:24,480
they must work well the thing is of

631
00:25:29,830 --> 00:25:26,960
course if if the blues happened to win

632
00:25:31,590 --> 00:25:29,840
the next game which i think is next week

633
00:25:33,269 --> 00:25:31,600
um you can bet there'll be people

634
00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:33,279
crowing saying you see

635
00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:35,520
it it works there's strange noises

636
00:25:40,390 --> 00:25:38,480
coming from out your window doctor

637
00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:40,400
i don't know what it is

638
00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:42,480
children it's past your bedtime do you

639
00:25:46,310 --> 00:25:44,320
get like fires and crazy things

640
00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:46,320
happening in your street yes people that

641
00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:48,640
know me on twitter would be aware that i

642
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:51,760
have had a few uh strange occurrences

643
00:25:57,110 --> 00:25:54,960
here like car cars catching fire outside

644
00:25:58,710 --> 00:25:57,120
your door cars catching on fire um

645
00:26:00,789 --> 00:25:58,720
ninjas have been in the news recently

646
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:00,799
haven't they yeah ninjas

647
00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:03,840
i had ninjas i'm quite serious brilliant

648
00:26:07,830 --> 00:26:06,400
um if you look out the window and

649
00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:07,840
obviously listeners can't see this but

650
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:10,320
there's a large house with a turret

651
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:12,320
right opposite here i was sitting in

652
00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:14,400
this room one night and i happened to

653
00:26:19,830 --> 00:26:17,200
glance across and saw five ninjas on the

654
00:26:22,230 --> 00:26:19,840
roof of the house opposite me

655
00:26:24,230 --> 00:26:22,240
if you the level of my flat which is

656
00:26:26,870 --> 00:26:24,240
level one is level with the roof of this

657
00:26:28,149 --> 00:26:26,880
particular house so if i had my lights

658
00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:28,159
on which i did they could have seen

659
00:26:32,630 --> 00:26:30,880
straight into my lounge room oh so i

660
00:26:34,950 --> 00:26:32,640
kind of creeped ninja like across the

661
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:36,950
my hands at the windowsill and watch the

662
00:26:39,909 --> 00:26:38,640
ninjas and they climbed up there and

663
00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:39,919
they had a cigarette and then they got

664
00:26:45,269 --> 00:26:41,600
down again so i don't think they did

665
00:26:47,190 --> 00:26:45,279
anything particularly damaging

666
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:47,200
yeah anyway yes um

667
00:26:50,630 --> 00:26:48,640
so

668
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:50,640
but yeah back to the new world back to

669
00:26:54,870 --> 00:26:52,080
the blues

670
00:26:56,950 --> 00:26:54,880
who was quoted in the newspaper report

671
00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:56,960
well hell if it if nothing else he knows

672
00:27:02,149 --> 00:26:58,799
how to market his device

673
00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:02,159
i'll give him that i i let the reporter

674
00:27:06,149 --> 00:27:04,240
from the sydney morning herald

675
00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:06,159
know about the video the skeptic zone

676
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:08,080
put out a few weeks ago showing how the

677
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:10,240
tricks work and i said look look at this

678
00:27:13,269 --> 00:27:11,760
video and you'll you'll get a better

679
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:13,279
understanding of what's really going on

680
00:27:15,669 --> 00:27:14,320
here

681
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:15,679
um

682
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:17,520
it's it's a mixed it's a double-edged

683
00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:19,200
sword i should say because you never

684
00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:21,360
know when you talk to reporters how the

685
00:27:23,830 --> 00:27:22,960
story will come out

686
00:27:25,669 --> 00:27:23,840
you know

687
00:27:27,590 --> 00:27:25,679
they might wait you out of context in

688
00:27:28,549 --> 00:27:27,600
fact they often do

689
00:27:29,269 --> 00:27:28,559
um

690
00:27:34,310 --> 00:27:29,279
and

691
00:27:35,350 --> 00:27:34,320
see mind you richard that video that we

692
00:27:38,149 --> 00:27:35,360
did for

693
00:27:39,029 --> 00:27:38,159
applied kinesiology which was obviously

694
00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:39,039
um

695
00:27:42,710 --> 00:27:40,880
a reason the reason for that was because

696
00:27:45,110 --> 00:27:42,720
the power balance has been doing really

697
00:27:46,789 --> 00:27:45,120
really well hasn't it oh yes thank you

698
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:46,799
everybody for for watching that of

699
00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:49,520
course it's got over it's four four five

700
00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:51,200
thousand downloads

701
00:27:54,470 --> 00:27:53,200
from the skeptic's own feed alone and i

702
00:27:56,950 --> 00:27:54,480
think on the

703
00:27:58,710 --> 00:27:56,960
on youtube in fact jason you can have a

704
00:28:00,389 --> 00:27:58,720
quick look for us if i can i might look

705
00:28:01,590 --> 00:28:00,399
i'll just say it's got on youtube it's

706
00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:01,600
going very well it's got lots of

707
00:28:05,909 --> 00:28:03,440
comments

708
00:28:08,789 --> 00:28:05,919
oh dear idea yeah oh there we are yeah

709
00:28:10,710 --> 00:28:08,799
yeah yeah there's so there's 340 views

710
00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:10,720
and four pages of comments i've never

711
00:28:14,549 --> 00:28:12,240
had that many comments on one of my

712
00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:14,559
youtube videos but i will crow and say

713
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:17,039
that i've had more views okay well it's

714
00:28:21,430 --> 00:28:19,440
only new you know

715
00:28:23,269 --> 00:28:21,440
i have had lots of then thank you for

716
00:28:25,190 --> 00:28:23,279
the people who have been emailing me

717
00:28:26,630 --> 00:28:25,200
saying thank you and they've used it

718
00:28:28,710 --> 00:28:26,640
themselves

719
00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:28,720
yeah they've taught their kids how to do

720
00:28:32,230 --> 00:28:30,480
it and all sorts of things and they've

721
00:28:33,750 --> 00:28:32,240
done it for their kid for kids at

722
00:28:35,510 --> 00:28:33,760
parties or something yeah to show them

723
00:28:39,750 --> 00:28:35,520
how yeah yeah yeah oh god i just sounded

724
00:28:42,789 --> 00:28:41,430
i'm channeling wait you paid them all

725
00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:42,799
five quid

726
00:28:49,990 --> 00:28:47,760
oh dear i wonder if wakefield uses

727
00:28:52,070 --> 00:28:50,000
applied kinesiology now uh jason let me

728
00:28:53,590 --> 00:28:52,080
uh swing back to you

729
00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:53,600
yes richard

730
00:28:58,549 --> 00:28:55,440
as you know we're all very

731
00:29:01,110 --> 00:28:58,559
excited and certainly uh listeners rest

732
00:29:03,510 --> 00:29:01,120
assured that your town australia team

733
00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:03,520
aren't sitting back we uh there's a lot

734
00:29:07,990 --> 00:29:05,520
to do more than we ever anticipated

735
00:29:10,470 --> 00:29:08,000
absolutely but uh god we wouldn't swap

736
00:29:13,590 --> 00:29:10,480
it for anything it's it's so exciting

737
00:29:15,669 --> 00:29:13,600
but jason you've um cooked up something

738
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:15,679
as like a a side event for town

739
00:29:18,389 --> 00:29:17,039
australia we're going to do a town

740
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:18,399
australia fringe we're going to have a

741
00:29:20,950 --> 00:29:19,360
few of these

742
00:29:23,029 --> 00:29:20,960
friends

743
00:29:25,269 --> 00:29:23,039
yes it's going to be fantastic excellent

744
00:29:27,430 --> 00:29:25,279
um i kind of thought about it a few days

745
00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:27,440
ago that why not we've got a week

746
00:29:30,630 --> 00:29:29,440
leading up to town australia and we've

747
00:29:32,710 --> 00:29:30,640
got a lot of

748
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:32,720
exciting things we could do let's have a

749
00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:34,159
few events

750
00:29:39,269 --> 00:29:36,559
so today i i publicized an unofficial

751
00:29:41,029 --> 00:29:39,279
skeptic's open mic night

752
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:41,039
where we'll give anyone that wants to

753
00:29:45,269 --> 00:29:42,480
get up and talk

754
00:29:46,870 --> 00:29:45,279
on a scientific or skeptical subject

755
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:46,880
five minutes to talk five minutes to

756
00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:49,200
take questions and answers all right

757
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:50,880
so far i've got no idea where this is

758
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:52,240
going to take place but probably in a

759
00:29:55,830 --> 00:29:54,240
pub um so that we'll have a little bit

760
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:55,840
of alcohol involved

761
00:30:00,310 --> 00:29:57,760
um we've had a few sign ups already it's

762
00:30:01,669 --> 00:30:00,320
on facebook you can find it with uh

763
00:30:03,909 --> 00:30:01,679
if you search for the keywords tam

764
00:30:05,750 --> 00:30:03,919
australia and open mic

765
00:30:07,750 --> 00:30:05,760
uh open mic

766
00:30:08,950 --> 00:30:07,760
you'll find it on facebook or you can go

767
00:30:14,549 --> 00:30:08,960
to my blog

768
00:30:18,310 --> 00:30:15,990
and there's a little advert there or you

769
00:30:19,990 --> 00:30:18,320
can find me on twitter at drunkenmadman

770
00:30:21,750 --> 00:30:20,000
and just ping me a message and i'll let

771
00:30:23,269 --> 00:30:21,760
you know all about it um so that's going

772
00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:23,279
to happen in the week coming up to tam

773
00:30:27,909 --> 00:30:25,600
and how how ironic is that you're not in

774
00:30:30,549 --> 00:30:27,919
fact a drunken madman after all well i

775
00:30:32,070 --> 00:30:30,559
am sometimes oh well all right

776
00:30:33,029 --> 00:30:32,080
that sounds really interesting jason

777
00:30:34,230 --> 00:30:33,039
because

778
00:30:36,310 --> 00:30:34,240
obviously you don't know what you're

779
00:30:38,470 --> 00:30:36,320
going to get right that's right do

780
00:30:40,070 --> 00:30:38,480
people have to apply or they just turn

781
00:30:42,070 --> 00:30:40,080
up on the night and

782
00:30:44,470 --> 00:30:42,080
well i'm expecting some people to let me

783
00:30:46,389 --> 00:30:44,480
know in advance but i don't really mind

784
00:30:48,230 --> 00:30:46,399
i think um you're looking for a very

785
00:30:49,510 --> 00:30:48,240
informal thing i'm looking for a very

786
00:30:51,430 --> 00:30:49,520
very informal thing if you've ever been

787
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:51,440
to an open mic night for musicians you

788
00:30:54,710 --> 00:30:53,360
just turn up with your guitar and do a

789
00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:54,720
couple of songs you just put your name

790
00:30:56,950 --> 00:30:56,080
on the list at the start of the evening

791
00:31:00,149 --> 00:30:56,960
and

792
00:31:01,750 --> 00:31:00,159
will gauge how long you stay on for

793
00:31:03,110 --> 00:31:01,760
basically i'm really pleased about this

794
00:31:07,029 --> 00:31:03,120
idea because it'll give a lot of people

795
00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:08,549
big names that we're

796
00:31:13,269 --> 00:31:10,720
flying in for tam of course in a very

797
00:31:16,070 --> 00:31:13,279
informal and fun situation which sounds

798
00:31:17,990 --> 00:31:16,080
great to me i hope to come along myself

799
00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:18,000
um but well you haven't confirmed on

800
00:31:21,269 --> 00:31:20,159
facebook i have have you i have indeed

801
00:31:23,269 --> 00:31:21,279
oh you're not showing up in the list

802
00:31:24,870 --> 00:31:23,279
here let's just have a quick look check

803
00:31:26,950 --> 00:31:24,880
the ball listing

804
00:31:30,149 --> 00:31:26,960
check the full listing well on on

805
00:31:32,470 --> 00:31:30,159
another note oh my apologies

806
00:31:34,549 --> 00:31:32,480
on another note i noticed uh a couple of

807
00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:34,559
days ago on twitter that rebecca watson

808
00:31:39,110 --> 00:31:35,840
has said she's planning to have a

809
00:31:40,710 --> 00:31:39,120
skeptic party for tamors as well

810
00:31:44,830 --> 00:31:40,720
so we're gonna have to fit that in

811
00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:47,669
fun does that mean

812
00:31:51,029 --> 00:31:49,120
well i've been to a couple of skeptic

813
00:31:53,909 --> 00:31:51,039
parties in las vegas and yes they're

814
00:31:57,029 --> 00:31:53,919
funny oh oh yeah okay don't worry you'll

815
00:31:59,669 --> 00:31:57,039
find out soon yes i guess we will and

816
00:32:02,549 --> 00:31:59,679
because of course dr hd myself joanne

817
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:02,559
benamu and iran segev will be at tam las

818
00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:03,840
vegas and we're looking forward to

819
00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:06,000
seeing everybody there

820
00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:08,640
and please please if

821
00:32:13,110 --> 00:32:11,440
if you care to if you enjoy the zone

822
00:32:14,950 --> 00:32:13,120
please don't be shy come up and say

823
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:14,960
hello we'd love to meet you and have a

824
00:32:19,990 --> 00:32:17,600
chat um we're always very

825
00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:20,000
uh thrilled and honored to to to chat to

826
00:32:23,830 --> 00:32:21,840
people who really enjoy the show and we

827
00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:23,840
certainly get a big charge out of it and

828
00:32:27,110 --> 00:32:25,200
the other thing that listeners should

829
00:32:29,509 --> 00:32:27,120
make a note of is um

830
00:32:31,990 --> 00:32:29,519
if you have seen the website for tam

831
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:32,000
australia termaustralia.org

832
00:32:35,830 --> 00:32:33,679
the people that did the design for that

833
00:32:37,830 --> 00:32:35,840
ricky and tom from perth

834
00:32:40,149 --> 00:32:37,840
they also designed the skeptic's guide

835
00:32:41,909 --> 00:32:40,159
to the universe t-shirt which is the one

836
00:32:42,950 --> 00:32:41,919
that kind of looks really 60. oh the

837
00:32:45,590 --> 00:32:42,960
craziest one

838
00:32:48,310 --> 00:32:45,600
yeah it's fantastic and so they're doing

839
00:32:50,549 --> 00:32:48,320
all our design for tam australia

840
00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:50,559
and so we're going to be taking with us

841
00:32:55,269 --> 00:32:52,320
some more of their wonderful work to tam

842
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:55,279
vegas including some flyers and some

843
00:32:59,110 --> 00:32:57,600
posters and some t-shirts

844
00:33:00,950 --> 00:32:59,120
and we've just seen the artwork for the

845
00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:00,960
t-shirts richard and i'm really happy

846
00:33:05,669 --> 00:33:03,360
with it it's fantastic isn't it and the

847
00:33:07,269 --> 00:33:05,679
the new tam logo the one we had before

848
00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:07,279
with the kangaroo and the upside down

849
00:33:11,509 --> 00:33:08,080
stuff

850
00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:11,519
was was uh more or less uh something to

851
00:33:15,269 --> 00:33:13,440
start the ball rolling but now we've got

852
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:15,279
the official tam logo for australia

853
00:33:19,029 --> 00:33:17,279
which is this lovely design which is

854
00:33:21,190 --> 00:33:19,039
like a molecule

855
00:33:23,509 --> 00:33:21,200
and then in the word tam written in a

856
00:33:25,830 --> 00:33:23,519
molecule it's great ricky and tom are

857
00:33:27,990 --> 00:33:25,840
doing all of this for nada and they have

858
00:33:29,590 --> 00:33:28,000
worked very very hard and we're really

859
00:33:31,029 --> 00:33:29,600
excited about being able to collaborate

860
00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:31,039
with them because their stuff is just

861
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:32,480
aren't they the nicest people when you

862
00:33:36,830 --> 00:33:34,720
and i went over there last year

863
00:33:38,870 --> 00:33:36,840
and they did that photo shoot with us

864
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:38,880
absolutely and they complete they

865
00:33:42,549 --> 00:33:40,799
offered to do that off their own bat we

866
00:33:44,389 --> 00:33:42,559
didn't have any role in that at all and

867
00:33:47,029 --> 00:33:44,399
the results have been just

868
00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:47,039
uh uh astonishing yeah absolutely yeah

869
00:33:50,149 --> 00:33:48,640
and i think it's also really important

870
00:33:52,470 --> 00:33:50,159
that we have someone from australia to

871
00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:52,480
do the design and lots of people know

872
00:33:56,549 --> 00:33:54,799
about their work because of the sgu

873
00:33:57,990 --> 00:33:56,559
t-shirts and rebecca watson's been

874
00:34:00,389 --> 00:33:58,000
wearing them around

875
00:34:01,830 --> 00:34:00,399
so i've got one it's great yeah so for

876
00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:01,840
people

877
00:34:05,590 --> 00:34:03,600
who don't know their work head to tam

878
00:34:06,789 --> 00:34:05,600
australia.org and keep your eye out

879
00:34:08,710 --> 00:34:06,799
because there's going to be lots more

880
00:34:10,470 --> 00:34:08,720
fantastic stuff from ricky and tom yeah

881
00:34:12,629 --> 00:34:10,480
we owe them a lot they're they're great

882
00:34:14,790 --> 00:34:12,639
people and and talented

883
00:34:16,710 --> 00:34:14,800
absolutely skilled and talented so thank

884
00:34:17,829 --> 00:34:16,720
you very much for that now drunken

885
00:34:19,829 --> 00:34:17,839
madman

886
00:34:21,430 --> 00:34:19,839
can you tell us oh we're looking you've

887
00:34:22,869 --> 00:34:21,440
got the site i've got the site right at

888
00:34:24,389 --> 00:34:22,879
the front right in front of you it

889
00:34:26,389 --> 00:34:24,399
doesn't there's a big picture of james

890
00:34:29,349 --> 00:34:26,399
randy himself looking

891
00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:29,359
uh what's the word skeptical

892
00:34:33,669 --> 00:34:31,679
he's in he's in finland at the moment i

893
00:34:34,869 --> 00:34:33,679
think is he yeah it's bloody freezing

894
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:34,879
there actually it's summer isn't it

895
00:34:39,950 --> 00:34:37,440
summer but still probably freezing time

896
00:34:43,669 --> 00:34:39,960
but my goodness me i mean

897
00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:43,679
82 i think almost 82 and gallivanting

898
00:34:48,629 --> 00:34:46,320
around the world it's just when i'm 82 i

899
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:48,639
hope i'm color around the world if i'm

900
00:34:54,230 --> 00:34:50,399
doing that at that age it'll be because

901
00:34:56,230 --> 00:34:54,240
we've invented zombifying technology

902
00:34:58,470 --> 00:34:56,240
but i'll be moving yeah

903
00:35:01,750 --> 00:34:58,480
and i must say that if listeners haven't

904
00:35:04,630 --> 00:35:01,760
seen his uh youtube video he made

905
00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:04,640
commenting about his uh experiences with

906
00:35:09,109 --> 00:35:06,400
chemotherapy

907
00:35:13,349 --> 00:35:09,119
it's one of the most inspirational

908
00:35:15,109 --> 00:35:13,359
wonderful videos you can imagine um

909
00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:15,119
whoever he was he could be randy or the

910
00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:18,240
guy next door it's a fantastic video and

911
00:35:22,630 --> 00:35:20,640
hats off to randy for doing that

912
00:35:24,630 --> 00:35:22,640
so richard was that a segue into the

913
00:35:26,390 --> 00:35:24,640
awful story that's happened in australia

914
00:35:28,550 --> 00:35:26,400
in the last couple of days

915
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:28,560
this has been blocked by a few people in

916
00:35:32,950 --> 00:35:30,560
the last few days but basically what

917
00:35:35,829 --> 00:35:32,960
happened was there was a lady in western

918
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:35,839
australia perth western australia

919
00:35:37,750 --> 00:35:36,640
who

920
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:37,760
died from

921
00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:40,560
bowel cancer a number of years ago 2005

922
00:35:43,990 --> 00:35:42,000
actually

923
00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:44,000
but there's recently been an inquest

924
00:35:48,310 --> 00:35:45,839
going on in perth

925
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:48,320
at the request of her family

926
00:35:53,030 --> 00:35:50,720
um just to work out the circumstances

927
00:35:55,349 --> 00:35:53,040
surrounding her death so

928
00:35:57,670 --> 00:35:55,359
so her name is penelope dingle

929
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:57,680
and she died in 2005 from untreated

930
00:36:02,390 --> 00:36:00,000
bowel cancer at the age of 45 which is

931
00:36:04,550 --> 00:36:02,400
very young that is really young she was

932
00:36:06,550 --> 00:36:04,560
diagnosed in 2003

933
00:36:10,870 --> 00:36:06,560
and this was after she first presented

934
00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:10,880
with bleeding from the bowel in 2001

935
00:36:14,710 --> 00:36:12,720
and she had a colonoscopy and she was

936
00:36:17,270 --> 00:36:14,720
advised by doctors that she needed

937
00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:17,280
surgery to remove the cancer

938
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:19,760
but she declined conventional medical

939
00:36:22,470 --> 00:36:20,880
treatment

940
00:36:24,230 --> 00:36:22,480
instead deciding that she wanted to

941
00:36:26,950 --> 00:36:24,240
follow a regimen of alternative

942
00:36:29,829 --> 00:36:26,960
treatments including special diets

943
00:36:31,990 --> 00:36:29,839
vitamins and homeopathy

944
00:36:33,030 --> 00:36:32,000
which as we know is

945
00:36:34,950 --> 00:36:33,040
water

946
00:36:37,109 --> 00:36:34,960
witchcraft yeah

947
00:36:39,109 --> 00:36:37,119
so her husband

948
00:36:41,910 --> 00:36:39,119
is actually a prominent professor of

949
00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:41,920
environmental toxicology at a university

950
00:36:44,790 --> 00:36:43,200
in perth

951
00:36:47,670 --> 00:36:44,800
and according to the evidence given at

952
00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:47,680
the inquest from friends of penelope

953
00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:48,800
dingle

954
00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:50,880
she and her husband had made a pact with

955
00:36:55,510 --> 00:36:53,280
a homeopath by the name of francine

956
00:36:57,589 --> 00:36:55,520
skrajan

957
00:37:00,069 --> 00:36:57,599
who had asked her to not take any

958
00:37:03,829 --> 00:37:00,079
conventional therapies and to just

959
00:37:05,910 --> 00:37:03,839
keep taking her homeopathic remedies

960
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:05,920
and mrs dingle was in constant phone

961
00:37:10,470 --> 00:37:08,400
contact with this homeopath she had

962
00:37:13,910 --> 00:37:10,480
never at any stage according to the

963
00:37:16,550 --> 00:37:13,920
information i have saw her in person

964
00:37:19,349 --> 00:37:16,560
and she advised her to not even seek

965
00:37:20,550 --> 00:37:19,359
pain relief for her bowel cancer

966
00:37:21,430 --> 00:37:20,560
oh

967
00:37:25,030 --> 00:37:21,440
so

968
00:37:27,589 --> 00:37:25,040
um a friend of the couple um have um

969
00:37:29,589 --> 00:37:27,599
said during the inquiry that the they

970
00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:29,599
were enthralled and entrapped in the

971
00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:30,800
spell

972
00:37:34,870 --> 00:37:33,119
of mrs crayon

973
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:34,880
and a report from the west australian

974
00:37:39,030 --> 00:37:36,560
described this as

975
00:37:41,109 --> 00:37:39,040
they were they had so much faith in this

976
00:37:42,870 --> 00:37:41,119
homeopath she was totally

977
00:37:44,390 --> 00:37:42,880
the woman who died was totally in her

978
00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:44,400
control

979
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:46,560
yeah i can understand that yeah

980
00:37:50,710 --> 00:37:48,400
but it turns out that

981
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:50,720
mrs dingle's diaries have been submitted

982
00:37:55,190 --> 00:37:53,040
as evidence of the inquiry

983
00:37:58,069 --> 00:37:55,200
and apparently she made a pact

984
00:37:59,670 --> 00:37:58,079
with this homeopath with her husband

985
00:38:01,990 --> 00:37:59,680
that they would never take conventional

986
00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:02,000
therapies and when she got better from

987
00:38:07,190 --> 00:38:03,599
her bowel cancer her husband would write

988
00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:07,200
a book about how special diets vitamins

989
00:38:10,470 --> 00:38:09,280
and homeopathy can cure cancer and

990
00:38:13,829 --> 00:38:10,480
airplanes

991
00:38:16,950 --> 00:38:15,430
now of course tragically that didn't

992
00:38:20,069 --> 00:38:16,960
happen

993
00:38:22,069 --> 00:38:20,079
um but also one of her friends

994
00:38:24,870 --> 00:38:22,079
one of the friends of mrs dingle

995
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:24,880
has testified that she came to visit her

996
00:38:29,670 --> 00:38:27,440
in october 2003

997
00:38:31,270 --> 00:38:29,680
and she was told on the phone that she

998
00:38:33,510 --> 00:38:31,280
was recovering quite well and responding

999
00:38:35,829 --> 00:38:33,520
to treatment quite well but when she saw

1000
00:38:36,950 --> 00:38:35,839
her she was so shocked to see how ill

1001
00:38:40,310 --> 00:38:36,960
she was

1002
00:38:42,150 --> 00:38:40,320
that she burst into tears

1003
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:42,160
and then she called up the homeopath

1004
00:38:46,790 --> 00:38:44,400
herself to ask her what was happening

1005
00:38:48,150 --> 00:38:46,800
and the homeopath dismissed her concerns

1006
00:38:51,270 --> 00:38:48,160
and said that

1007
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:51,280
mrs dingle's pain was in her head

1008
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:54,079
and she merely had constipation

1009
00:38:58,550 --> 00:38:56,480
over the phone over the phone according

1010
00:39:00,069 --> 00:38:58,560
to the information that is available to

1011
00:39:05,270 --> 00:39:00,079
me

1012
00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:05,280
visit this lady she simply consulted

1013
00:39:08,790 --> 00:39:06,720
over the phone and it wouldn't make much

1014
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:08,800
difference if she did i guess

1015
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:09,599
no

1016
00:39:13,670 --> 00:39:11,920
but she also insisted that mrs dingle

1017
00:39:16,150 --> 00:39:13,680
who passed away did not take any other

1018
00:39:16,950 --> 00:39:16,160
forms of medicine now it gets worse than

1019
00:39:19,030 --> 00:39:16,960
that

1020
00:39:20,870 --> 00:39:19,040
worse than this it does i'm afraid it

1021
00:39:23,190 --> 00:39:20,880
does get worse than this

1022
00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:23,200
so eventually it got so bad that she did

1023
00:39:28,069 --> 00:39:25,760
agree to have a morphine injection and

1024
00:39:30,550 --> 00:39:28,079
she was taken to hospital but at that

1025
00:39:33,190 --> 00:39:30,560
point she was so ill that they did

1026
00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:33,200
conduct emergency surgery but it was too

1027
00:39:36,390 --> 00:39:34,160
late

1028
00:39:37,750 --> 00:39:36,400
and she was advised by

1029
00:39:42,069 --> 00:39:37,760
a nurse

1030
00:39:43,190 --> 00:39:42,079
and i have to find a quote here

1031
00:39:44,710 --> 00:39:43,200
um

1032
00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:44,720
quite honestly it was like watching

1033
00:39:49,270 --> 00:39:46,560
someone being tortured it was almost

1034
00:39:51,589 --> 00:39:49,280
impossible to believe this was happening

1035
00:39:53,589 --> 00:39:51,599
and this was from her visiting nurse mrs

1036
00:39:55,510 --> 00:39:53,599
brown

1037
00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:55,520
and she said the next morning mrs dingle

1038
00:39:59,349 --> 00:39:57,359
was rushed to hospital she only agreed

1039
00:40:01,430 --> 00:39:59,359
to have emergency surgery after staff

1040
00:40:03,190 --> 00:40:01,440
told her she had a complete bowel

1041
00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:03,200
obstruction and would throw up fecal

1042
00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:05,520
matter before dying a very painful death

1043
00:40:08,790 --> 00:40:07,280
within 24 hours

1044
00:40:10,710 --> 00:40:08,800
that's horrible

1045
00:40:12,790 --> 00:40:10,720
so apparently she went to hospital and

1046
00:40:14,390 --> 00:40:12,800
she requested an enema and the staff

1047
00:40:16,470 --> 00:40:14,400
said there's no way we can give you an

1048
00:40:18,069 --> 00:40:16,480
enema because your bowel is completely

1049
00:40:20,630 --> 00:40:18,079
obstructed

1050
00:40:23,109 --> 00:40:20,640
and there was nothing they could do and

1051
00:40:26,550 --> 00:40:23,119
that was the outcome after i think she

1052
00:40:28,470 --> 00:40:26,560
was diagnosed in 2002 initially

1053
00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:28,480
and by 2005

1054
00:40:32,390 --> 00:40:30,000
that was it do you think that's going to

1055
00:40:33,670 --> 00:40:32,400
appear in this guy's book

1056
00:40:36,470 --> 00:40:33,680
i don't think he's going to write the

1057
00:40:38,950 --> 00:40:36,480
book to tell you the truth richard but

1058
00:40:40,550 --> 00:40:38,960
this this is peter dingle isn't it the

1059
00:40:43,190 --> 00:40:40,560
man who wants to set himself up was the

1060
00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:43,200
australian mccullough

1061
00:40:46,950 --> 00:40:44,720
i don't know about that but

1062
00:40:48,630 --> 00:40:46,960
have you seen his website no i haven't

1063
00:40:50,630 --> 00:40:48,640
ah well he's

1064
00:40:52,870 --> 00:40:50,640
almost a nicola clone on his website

1065
00:40:55,430 --> 00:40:52,880
he's got that smiling

1066
00:40:56,230 --> 00:40:55,440
white toothed sort of grinning doctor

1067
00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:56,240
thing

1068
00:40:59,990 --> 00:40:58,480
um i don't want to be at all libelous

1069
00:41:03,030 --> 00:41:00,000
but he does look like he's setting

1070
00:41:04,829 --> 00:41:03,040
himself up as a i'm a cola clone yeah

1071
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:04,839
well you also probably made the

1072
00:41:09,510 --> 00:41:07,280
connection um jason and this is not

1073
00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:09,520
necessarily connected to this case

1074
00:41:13,990 --> 00:41:12,160
but he is also the supervisor of

1075
00:41:16,069 --> 00:41:14,000
um an anti-vaxx

1076
00:41:18,309 --> 00:41:16,079
avn sympathizer by the name of judy

1077
00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:18,319
williamson that's right yeah i mean

1078
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:25,990
yeah judy wileyman is a student a phd

1079
00:41:30,790 --> 00:41:29,040
student of um peter

1080
00:41:33,190 --> 00:41:30,800
dingle

1081
00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:33,200
and she was representing

1082
00:41:38,069 --> 00:41:35,520
meryl dory at a meeting with the wa

1083
00:41:41,510 --> 00:41:38,079
department of health last monday

1084
00:41:43,190 --> 00:41:41,520
about vaccines in perth and she gave a

1085
00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:43,200
talk with meryl dory at the state

1086
00:41:47,030 --> 00:41:45,440
library which everyone who listens to

1087
00:41:48,950 --> 00:41:47,040
the podcast would know happened last

1088
00:41:50,870 --> 00:41:48,960
week have you seen the

1089
00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:50,880
the page written by the avn about that

1090
00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:52,000
meeting

1091
00:41:56,230 --> 00:41:53,760
yes i have i've seen a couple of blogs

1092
00:41:57,910 --> 00:41:56,240
about that yeah yeah how it was a great

1093
00:42:00,870 --> 00:41:57,920
success and she said

1094
00:42:02,710 --> 00:42:00,880
meryl said blah blah blah and there were

1095
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:02,720
three skeptics in the audience who were

1096
00:42:06,390 --> 00:42:05,040
too busy blogging and twittering

1097
00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:06,400
when they could have been listening and

1098
00:42:11,349 --> 00:42:08,480
learning something i did see that i

1099
00:42:13,910 --> 00:42:11,359
didn't see that yeah yeah but once again

1100
00:42:15,670 --> 00:42:13,920
meryl has blamed the skeptics but this

1101
00:42:17,109 --> 00:42:15,680
time interestingly

1102
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:17,119
she blamed the skeptics for having to

1103
00:42:21,190 --> 00:42:19,440
get more security and she says it cost a

1104
00:42:23,670 --> 00:42:21,200
hundred dollars to get two more security

1105
00:42:25,589 --> 00:42:23,680
guards at the library but interestingly

1106
00:42:27,829 --> 00:42:25,599
richard this time she's used skeptics

1107
00:42:31,349 --> 00:42:27,839
with a capital s

1108
00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:31,359
which infers australian skeptics

1109
00:42:34,630 --> 00:42:33,119
what what does she think will happen do

1110
00:42:36,550 --> 00:42:34,640
you think that does she think that the

1111
00:42:37,910 --> 00:42:36,560
skeptics will come along

1112
00:42:40,230 --> 00:42:37,920
with

1113
00:42:42,470 --> 00:42:40,240
arms or something and threaten them

1114
00:42:44,790 --> 00:42:42,480
physically i mean this is she claims

1115
00:42:46,230 --> 00:42:44,800
that some threats were received somehow

1116
00:42:48,710 --> 00:42:46,240
whether it was a phone call or an email

1117
00:42:49,510 --> 00:42:48,720
or whatever but i can't picture any of

1118
00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:49,520
our

1119
00:42:55,190 --> 00:42:53,520
supporters um doing such a thing

1120
00:42:57,510 --> 00:42:55,200
yeah it's a conjecture

1121
00:43:00,069 --> 00:42:57,520
it is it's it sounds crazy i mean it's

1122
00:43:02,069 --> 00:43:00,079
similar to the fact that she made a big

1123
00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:02,079
song and dance about how she kept seven

1124
00:43:06,950 --> 00:43:04,400
seats free for the department of health

1125
00:43:09,270 --> 00:43:06,960
and they didn't turn up well

1126
00:43:11,589 --> 00:43:09,280
i spoke to a contact at my contact with

1127
00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:11,599
the wa department of health and he said

1128
00:43:15,990 --> 00:43:13,680
they never planned to turn up so it's

1129
00:43:18,150 --> 00:43:16,000
all about drama it's her saying i had to

1130
00:43:19,270 --> 00:43:18,160
get security guards because the skeptics

1131
00:43:20,790 --> 00:43:19,280
threatened me

1132
00:43:22,870 --> 00:43:20,800
people have asked her for evidence on

1133
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:22,880
her blog she has yet to produce any

1134
00:43:27,109 --> 00:43:24,480
evidence

1135
00:43:29,030 --> 00:43:27,119
so it's all about drama that's all i can

1136
00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:29,040
think it is oh what else do you have

1137
00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:31,520
there well um our listeners would be

1138
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:33,520
familiar if they are regular listeners

1139
00:43:37,349 --> 00:43:35,520
of the evidence check that happened in

1140
00:43:39,030 --> 00:43:37,359
parliament in the uk

1141
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:39,040
some months ago

1142
00:43:44,069 --> 00:43:41,680
where the committee for science uh

1143
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:44,079
decided that there was no

1144
00:43:48,710 --> 00:43:46,800
uh good evidence to support homeopathy

1145
00:43:50,390 --> 00:43:48,720
being paid for by the nhs the national

1146
00:43:52,309 --> 00:43:50,400
health system

1147
00:43:53,829 --> 00:43:52,319
is the nhs or anything yeah

1148
00:43:55,190 --> 00:43:53,839
yeah

1149
00:43:56,790 --> 00:43:55,200
and so the recommendation from the

1150
00:43:58,950 --> 00:43:56,800
committee was that the government

1151
00:44:00,390 --> 00:43:58,960
doesn't pay for homeopathy anymore in

1152
00:44:02,790 --> 00:44:00,400
the uk

1153
00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:02,800
now the implications of this are

1154
00:44:06,950 --> 00:44:04,560
huge because there are still four

1155
00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:06,960
homeopathic hospitals in the uk there's

1156
00:44:09,990 --> 00:44:08,400
one right next to great organ street

1157
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:10,000
children's hospital in london that's

1158
00:44:14,230 --> 00:44:11,920
right right there and that's and can you

1159
00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:14,240
actually you're from wales but can you

1160
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:15,760
explain to our listeners what the

1161
00:44:18,950 --> 00:44:17,200
implications is that it's next to the

1162
00:44:21,109 --> 00:44:18,960
great ormond hospital because apparently

1163
00:44:23,030 --> 00:44:21,119
that's quite yeah great holding street

1164
00:44:26,069 --> 00:44:23,040
hospital is

1165
00:44:28,470 --> 00:44:26,079
massively famous in the uk and other

1166
00:44:30,069 --> 00:44:28,480
parts of the world obviously um for

1167
00:44:32,069 --> 00:44:30,079
being pretty much

1168
00:44:34,150 --> 00:44:32,079
kind of a center of excellence for for

1169
00:44:35,510 --> 00:44:34,160
children's treatment and for

1170
00:44:37,829 --> 00:44:35,520
i mean through the eighties when i was

1171
00:44:40,950 --> 00:44:37,839
growing up they had massive drives and

1172
00:44:42,630 --> 00:44:40,960
they were in in the media all the time

1173
00:44:44,630 --> 00:44:42,640
um for the good work that they do for

1174
00:44:46,069 --> 00:44:44,640
children's medicine and

1175
00:44:48,870 --> 00:44:46,079
you know being right next to great

1176
00:44:51,990 --> 00:44:48,880
ormond street it's kind of like

1177
00:44:53,670 --> 00:44:52,000
sticking um let me see

1178
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:53,680
the power balance factory right next to

1179
00:44:57,119 --> 00:45:00,230
it's pretty bad

1180
00:45:04,710 --> 00:45:02,390
well as a result of these findings from

1181
00:45:06,150 --> 00:45:04,720
the committee they potentially will lose

1182
00:45:09,750 --> 00:45:06,160
their funding and i know that one

1183
00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:09,760
hospital closed down in kent in 2009

1184
00:45:13,510 --> 00:45:11,440
because the nhs pulled their funding

1185
00:45:14,470 --> 00:45:13,520
from them

1186
00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:14,480
anyway

1187
00:45:19,670 --> 00:45:16,240
there have obviously been

1188
00:45:21,190 --> 00:45:19,680
opponents to this decision although i

1189
00:45:22,790 --> 00:45:21,200
might emphasize that nothing's happened

1190
00:45:24,069 --> 00:45:22,800
yet it was just a finding from the

1191
00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:24,079
committee

1192
00:45:30,230 --> 00:45:25,839
uh one of these people is a guy called

1193
00:45:34,470 --> 00:45:31,910
i think he's the shadow minister for

1194
00:45:36,870 --> 00:45:34,480
alternative health and so on

1195
00:45:38,309 --> 00:45:36,880
um if i remember correctly and i could

1196
00:45:40,230 --> 00:45:38,319
be slightly wrong in this he was caught

1197
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:40,240
up in an expenses scandal not that long

1198
00:45:45,030 --> 00:45:42,240
ago for spending 800 of parliamentary

1199
00:45:49,270 --> 00:45:46,550
astrology software

1200
00:45:52,230 --> 00:45:49,280
is that him that's him yes because

1201
00:45:54,870 --> 00:45:52,240
i heard that on um the bbc friday the

1202
00:45:56,710 --> 00:45:54,880
news quiz yes yes so that's david

1203
00:46:00,150 --> 00:45:56,720
trudeau absolutely

1204
00:46:01,670 --> 00:46:00,160
right well he's um he's obviously uh

1205
00:46:03,349 --> 00:46:01,680
gone into parliament and said that he

1206
00:46:05,750 --> 00:46:03,359
doesn't think that we should take money

1207
00:46:07,430 --> 00:46:05,760
away from complementary medicine well of

1208
00:46:09,750 --> 00:46:07,440
course he doesn't it's his portfolio

1209
00:46:12,309 --> 00:46:09,760
well yeah but there was a lovely quote

1210
00:46:14,230 --> 00:46:12,319
from that episode of the news quiz of uh

1211
00:46:16,069 --> 00:46:14,240
well of course astrology is related to

1212
00:46:24,630 --> 00:46:16,079
complementary alternative medicine they

1213
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:29,270
how much did he spend on that software

1214
00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:31,510
a huge amount of money it's a ridiculous

1215
00:46:35,190 --> 00:46:33,599
amount of money yeah yeah i don't charge

1216
00:46:36,630 --> 00:46:35,200
that much for software and i develop

1217
00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:36,640
software yeah but you don't have

1218
00:46:41,270 --> 00:46:39,119
astrology software do you and i wouldn't

1219
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:41,280
although why i wrote a numerology

1220
00:46:45,270 --> 00:46:43,200
program once just for a demo of how to

1221
00:46:48,470 --> 00:46:45,280
turn text into numbers

1222
00:46:50,630 --> 00:46:48,480
and subscribers to the skeptic magazine

1223
00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:50,640
from australia can read their astrology

1224
00:46:56,710 --> 00:46:54,240
every month every quarter in the skeptic

1225
00:47:00,069 --> 00:46:56,720
as written by our very own astrologer dr

1226
00:47:01,589 --> 00:47:00,079
duath ecaf yes and hang on can we play

1227
00:47:03,190 --> 00:47:01,599
that backwards

1228
00:47:06,630 --> 00:47:03,200
yeah listeners might want to think of

1229
00:47:08,710 --> 00:47:06,640
the words the name do f e caf and play

1230
00:47:10,950 --> 00:47:08,720
them backwards yes yeah okay that's

1231
00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:10,960
that's your homework listeners

1232
00:47:14,069 --> 00:47:12,640
so anyway i'm i'm getting this

1233
00:47:15,430 --> 00:47:14,079
information from a student spell them

1234
00:47:17,270 --> 00:47:15,440
backwards actually

1235
00:47:19,030 --> 00:47:17,280
yeah or listen to them

1236
00:47:20,550 --> 00:47:19,040
i don't know if that would work well

1237
00:47:24,069 --> 00:47:20,560
doesn't jesus sound like sausage

1238
00:47:28,550 --> 00:47:25,910
but you're always thinking about eating

1239
00:47:32,069 --> 00:47:30,150
anyway

1240
00:47:33,990 --> 00:47:32,079
this story comes from the new scientist

1241
00:47:36,150 --> 00:47:34,000
it was published on the 3rd of june and

1242
00:47:37,589 --> 00:47:36,160
it's written by michael brooks and

1243
00:47:39,190 --> 00:47:37,599
basically it's about the peer review

1244
00:47:40,470 --> 00:47:39,200
system in science

1245
00:47:42,069 --> 00:47:40,480
now the reason i mentioned david

1246
00:47:44,470 --> 00:47:42,079
trojenik is because he went into

1247
00:47:46,390 --> 00:47:44,480
parliament and he said i have evidence

1248
00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:46,400
that homeopathy works

1249
00:47:52,230 --> 00:47:48,160
in particular i have evidence that it

1250
00:47:55,750 --> 00:47:54,069
it's a big claim well

1251
00:47:57,510 --> 00:47:55,760
it's a good dovetail to what we've just

1252
00:47:59,990 --> 00:47:57,520
discussed actually

1253
00:48:01,510 --> 00:48:00,000
but um basically he's basing his claims

1254
00:48:03,750 --> 00:48:01,520
on a paper that was published in the

1255
00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:03,760
international journal of oncology

1256
00:48:06,950 --> 00:48:05,280
in february

1257
00:48:09,270 --> 00:48:06,960
now listeners that follow my blog would

1258
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:09,280
know that i took this paper to pieces

1259
00:48:15,190 --> 00:48:11,760
yes and after i took it to pieces

1260
00:48:16,870 --> 00:48:15,200
orac did david gorsky at scienceblogs

1261
00:48:18,150 --> 00:48:16,880
there were so many problems with this

1262
00:48:20,790 --> 00:48:18,160
paper

1263
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:20,800
it was an absolute fail and at the end

1264
00:48:25,109 --> 00:48:23,520
of my blog i said the journal of uh

1265
00:48:27,430 --> 00:48:25,119
international journal of oncology has an

1266
00:48:29,829 --> 00:48:27,440
impact factor of 2.4 but a failed factor

1267
00:48:32,549 --> 00:48:29,839
of 10 to 23.

1268
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:32,559
but i was sent this by a friend on

1269
00:48:36,549 --> 00:48:34,640
twitter david briggs

1270
00:48:38,710 --> 00:48:36,559
the full text and i took it to pieces it

1271
00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:38,720
took me a whole day to actually

1272
00:48:42,710 --> 00:48:41,200
analyze what was wrong with it

1273
00:48:44,470 --> 00:48:42,720
but basically the major thing that was

1274
00:48:46,710 --> 00:48:44,480
wrong with this paper was they were

1275
00:48:48,710 --> 00:48:46,720
talking about homeopathy killing cancer

1276
00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:48,720
cells in cell culture

1277
00:48:52,630 --> 00:48:50,319
now cell culture means that you take

1278
00:48:54,069 --> 00:48:52,640
cells and you grow them in little dishes

1279
00:48:57,750 --> 00:48:54,079
and then you treat them with a certain

1280
00:48:59,750 --> 00:48:57,760
type of um compound exactly what you do

1281
00:49:02,630 --> 00:48:59,760
yeah that's this is what i do every day

1282
00:49:04,230 --> 00:49:02,640
yeah every day i do this and they

1283
00:49:05,829 --> 00:49:04,240
claimed that

1284
00:49:07,349 --> 00:49:05,839
the homeopathic treatment killed the

1285
00:49:09,270 --> 00:49:07,359
cells better than

1286
00:49:11,109 --> 00:49:09,280
anything else

1287
00:49:12,549 --> 00:49:11,119
but the biggest problem in this

1288
00:49:14,950 --> 00:49:12,559
particular paper

1289
00:49:16,790 --> 00:49:14,960
was that the actual thing they dissolved

1290
00:49:18,549 --> 00:49:16,800
the homeopathy in

1291
00:49:21,670 --> 00:49:18,559
also killed the cells

1292
00:49:23,270 --> 00:49:21,680
to a degree of about 30 percent

1293
00:49:24,549 --> 00:49:23,280
now there were no statistics done in

1294
00:49:26,230 --> 00:49:24,559
this paper

1295
00:49:28,870 --> 00:49:26,240
so there was no way to know if there was

1296
00:49:30,549 --> 00:49:28,880
a statistical difference between the

1297
00:49:31,750 --> 00:49:30,559
control treatment that you call it which

1298
00:49:32,870 --> 00:49:31,760
is the treatment that's not supposed to

1299
00:49:35,349 --> 00:49:32,880
do anything

1300
00:49:38,390 --> 00:49:35,359
and the homeopathic treatment

1301
00:49:40,150 --> 00:49:38,400
they also did analysis which they didn't

1302
00:49:42,630 --> 00:49:40,160
quantitate they just looked at a couple

1303
00:49:44,630 --> 00:49:42,640
of i think they looked at 14 cells and

1304
00:49:46,630 --> 00:49:44,640
said oh look they're dying

1305
00:49:49,109 --> 00:49:46,640
but they didn't do more than 14 and in

1306
00:49:51,430 --> 00:49:49,119
science you need to do maybe 10 000

1307
00:49:54,790 --> 00:49:51,440
cells not just 14 cells

1308
00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:54,800
14 14 cells that's ridiculous yes

1309
00:49:58,230 --> 00:49:56,640
classically that's yeah small sample

1310
00:50:00,630 --> 00:49:58,240
size at that point you you're going it's

1311
00:50:01,910 --> 00:50:00,640
like well now sorry yeah well that's

1312
00:50:03,990 --> 00:50:01,920
right but the interesting thing about

1313
00:50:05,910 --> 00:50:04,000
this paper was that it was picked up by

1314
00:50:07,829 --> 00:50:05,920
people like homeopathy plus which we've

1315
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:07,839
mentioned on the show before

1316
00:50:12,230 --> 00:50:09,839
and that's because they always make

1317
00:50:15,190 --> 00:50:12,240
outrageous claims and in particular they

1318
00:50:18,069 --> 00:50:15,200
were taken to task by the tga

1319
00:50:19,670 --> 00:50:18,079
several months ago and requested to put

1320
00:50:21,349 --> 00:50:19,680
a retraction on their website and they

1321
00:50:23,829 --> 00:50:21,359
didn't do it

1322
00:50:25,910 --> 00:50:23,839
and they sent out an e-newsletter saying

1323
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:25,920
homeopathy better than chemotherapy for

1324
00:50:29,750 --> 00:50:28,319
cancer for breast cancer

1325
00:50:32,549 --> 00:50:29,760
now i went through this paper with a

1326
00:50:35,270 --> 00:50:32,559
fine-tooth comb and i found one sentence

1327
00:50:37,109 --> 00:50:35,280
in the discussion that said

1328
00:50:38,630 --> 00:50:37,119
maybe this might do something for breast

1329
00:50:41,109 --> 00:50:38,640
cancer but we don't know yet we haven't

1330
00:50:42,870 --> 00:50:41,119
decided what's happened is it's been

1331
00:50:45,190 --> 00:50:42,880
picked up by people who are sympathetic

1332
00:50:47,030 --> 00:50:45,200
to homeopathy and they've taken off with

1333
00:50:48,710 --> 00:50:47,040
it and said homeopathy cures breast

1334
00:50:51,349 --> 00:50:48,720
cancer

1335
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:51,359
now the whole point of this article from

1336
00:50:56,069 --> 00:50:53,359
michael brooks is that the peer review

1337
00:50:58,390 --> 00:50:56,079
process in science is stuffed

1338
00:51:00,950 --> 00:50:58,400
because if this got published

1339
00:51:03,349 --> 00:51:00,960
there's no way for people to know who

1340
00:51:05,670 --> 00:51:03,359
are not scientists that it's not valid

1341
00:51:07,510 --> 00:51:05,680
unless you are a scientist like myself

1342
00:51:09,829 --> 00:51:07,520
or david gorsky who can sit down and

1343
00:51:11,990 --> 00:51:09,839
read the whole paper and take a day

1344
00:51:13,349 --> 00:51:12,000
to critically analyze it why would you

1345
00:51:15,030 --> 00:51:13,359
know any different

1346
00:51:18,230 --> 00:51:15,040
this is this is a very good point and it

1347
00:51:19,990 --> 00:51:18,240
it reminds me of the the term

1348
00:51:21,270 --> 00:51:20,000
scallop

1349
00:51:22,790 --> 00:51:21,280
where

1350
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:22,800
and it happened to be the other night

1351
00:51:27,270 --> 00:51:25,680
when somebody said um

1352
00:51:30,630 --> 00:51:27,280
i was talking about the

1353
00:51:32,870 --> 00:51:30,640
australian skeptics 100 000 prize for

1354
00:51:34,710 --> 00:51:32,880
claims of the paranormal

1355
00:51:36,790 --> 00:51:34,720
and they said oh really oh that's great

1356
00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:36,800
ah i've got all these papers about

1357
00:51:40,950 --> 00:51:39,520
remote viewing oh i was there for that

1358
00:51:43,910 --> 00:51:40,960
you were there you were there for that

1359
00:51:47,270 --> 00:51:43,920
right where was that

1360
00:51:50,950 --> 00:51:47,280
really and i said well that's great

1361
00:51:52,950 --> 00:51:50,960
but you expect us to consider that as as

1362
00:51:55,270 --> 00:51:52,960
evidence where we would have to go

1363
00:51:57,990 --> 00:51:55,280
through every reference and double check

1364
00:51:59,750 --> 00:51:58,000
it and check the the

1365
00:52:00,470 --> 00:51:59,760
the conditions and et cetera et cetera i

1366
00:52:02,069 --> 00:52:00,480
said

1367
00:52:04,069 --> 00:52:02,079
look if you know someone who can do it

1368
00:52:06,470 --> 00:52:04,079
just bring them along and let them do it

1369
00:52:07,510 --> 00:52:06,480
now now this is like randy he says

1370
00:52:11,589 --> 00:52:07,520
don't

1371
00:52:13,750 --> 00:52:11,599
millions of papers about this just do it

1372
00:52:15,030 --> 00:52:13,760
just yeah it's quite right and the gift

1373
00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:15,040
gallop originally comes from a guy

1374
00:52:19,430 --> 00:52:17,040
called dwayne gish

1375
00:52:21,109 --> 00:52:19,440
uh let me see the institute for creation

1376
00:52:22,870 --> 00:52:21,119
research is that right

1377
00:52:24,790 --> 00:52:22,880
he's one of one of these creationist

1378
00:52:26,710 --> 00:52:24,800
things and he's famous in debates for

1379
00:52:28,710 --> 00:52:26,720
just reeling off

1380
00:52:30,390 --> 00:52:28,720
in a very practiced manner a whole

1381
00:52:33,030 --> 00:52:30,400
string of

1382
00:52:35,109 --> 00:52:33,040
[\h__\h] frankly the uh the

1383
00:52:37,030 --> 00:52:35,119
representative for the brower

1384
00:52:38,710 --> 00:52:37,040
homeopathic company in south australia

1385
00:52:41,030 --> 00:52:38,720
one robert medhurst

1386
00:52:42,870 --> 00:52:41,040
is famous for that yeah and and so is

1387
00:52:45,670 --> 00:52:42,880
meryl dory i mean we witnessed that we

1388
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:45,680
went to a debate at channel 7 where she

1389
00:52:49,670 --> 00:52:47,520
gesh galloped and held up papers saying

1390
00:52:51,829 --> 00:52:49,680
look it shows here that vaccines cause

1391
00:52:53,670 --> 00:52:51,839
autism it shows here that the american

1392
00:52:55,270 --> 00:52:53,680
government is paying parents who have

1393
00:52:56,790 --> 00:52:55,280
autistic kids because of mmr and

1394
00:52:59,109 --> 00:52:56,800
wakefield's been doing that lately

1395
00:53:00,549 --> 00:52:59,119
wakefield did it as well and i talked

1396
00:53:02,790 --> 00:53:00,559
about that a couple of weeks ago on the

1397
00:53:05,589 --> 00:53:02,800
zone or maybe last week where

1398
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:05,599
he went on the today show in america and

1399
00:53:09,430 --> 00:53:07,119
said to matt lauer

1400
00:53:10,710 --> 00:53:09,440
my my study's been reproduced five times

1401
00:53:12,390 --> 00:53:10,720
in five different countries blah blah

1402
00:53:14,069 --> 00:53:12,400
blah blah blah and

1403
00:53:14,950 --> 00:53:14,079
there's no way that you can counteract

1404
00:53:22,790 --> 00:53:14,960
that

1405
00:53:23,670 --> 00:53:22,800
is kind of a the same thing but

1406
00:53:25,910 --> 00:53:23,680
i mean

1407
00:53:27,750 --> 00:53:25,920
really the point that michael brooks is

1408
00:53:28,790 --> 00:53:27,760
making in this article

1409
00:53:30,870 --> 00:53:28,800
and i have to thank him because he

1410
00:53:33,910 --> 00:53:30,880
linked to my blog thank you and i had a

1411
00:53:35,710 --> 00:53:33,920
huge amount of hits three days

1412
00:53:37,910 --> 00:53:35,720
what's your blog again

1413
00:53:39,270 --> 00:53:37,920
skepticsbook.com yes

1414
00:53:40,950 --> 00:53:39,280
um but

1415
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:40,960
yeah i mean there's no way for people to

1416
00:53:45,670 --> 00:53:42,960
know if it's not

1417
00:53:48,549 --> 00:53:45,680
uh you know a valid scientific method

1418
00:53:50,390 --> 00:53:48,559
valid science unless they look at it but

1419
00:53:52,390 --> 00:53:50,400
i take your point richard and that is

1420
00:53:53,990 --> 00:53:52,400
that it can't just be one paper i mean

1421
00:53:55,349 --> 00:53:54,000
for people that don't

1422
00:53:56,870 --> 00:53:55,359
work in science or don't understand the

1423
00:53:58,390 --> 00:53:56,880
scientific method

1424
00:54:00,390 --> 00:53:58,400
you need a body of research to

1425
00:54:01,750 --> 00:54:00,400
demonstrate an effect before you can say

1426
00:54:03,430 --> 00:54:01,760
it's real

1427
00:54:05,990 --> 00:54:03,440
so one paper

1428
00:54:07,750 --> 00:54:06,000
from the md anderson center in

1429
00:54:11,430 --> 00:54:07,760
tennessee

1430
00:54:13,190 --> 00:54:11,440
is not evidence that homeopathy can cure

1431
00:54:14,150 --> 00:54:13,200
breast cancer whilst not damaging other

1432
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:14,160
cells

1433
00:54:18,069 --> 00:54:16,800
now for those of us

1434
00:54:19,990 --> 00:54:18,079
who have had

1435
00:54:22,549 --> 00:54:20,000
very personal experience of breast

1436
00:54:25,109 --> 00:54:22,559
cancer my mother 20 years ago had breast

1437
00:54:26,390 --> 00:54:25,119
cancer and it was um successfully

1438
00:54:28,630 --> 00:54:26,400
treated by

1439
00:54:31,270 --> 00:54:28,640
the evils of conventional scientific

1440
00:54:34,150 --> 00:54:31,280
medicine allopathy allopathy

1441
00:54:35,829 --> 00:54:34,160
it it really hits home and i'm sure many

1442
00:54:37,910 --> 00:54:35,839
of our listeners listening right now in

1443
00:54:38,950 --> 00:54:37,920
their cars or jogging or whatever you're

1444
00:54:41,349 --> 00:54:38,960
doing

1445
00:54:42,710 --> 00:54:41,359
maybe cleaning colonoscopies painting

1446
00:54:45,349 --> 00:54:42,720
painting yes

1447
00:54:47,430 --> 00:54:45,359
a lot of people paint to do artwork

1448
00:54:49,349 --> 00:54:47,440
we'll realize this would be it breast

1449
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:49,359
cancer or other forms of cancer which

1450
00:54:55,510 --> 00:54:53,760
have been treated but or maybe sadly not

1451
00:54:57,910 --> 00:54:55,520
um know the

1452
00:54:59,030 --> 00:54:57,920
the personal impact this has well you

1453
00:55:00,390 --> 00:54:59,040
know it's even more interesting than

1454
00:55:02,470 --> 00:55:00,400
that richard because i blogged about

1455
00:55:03,670 --> 00:55:02,480
this maybe two three months ago i can't

1456
00:55:05,829 --> 00:55:03,680
remember

1457
00:55:08,390 --> 00:55:05,839
and probably a month ago i had a comment

1458
00:55:10,069 --> 00:55:08,400
left on this particular blog by someone

1459
00:55:11,829 --> 00:55:10,079
who said they worked on this particular

1460
00:55:13,510 --> 00:55:11,839
paper

1461
00:55:15,190 --> 00:55:13,520
they then requested when they saw the

1462
00:55:17,990 --> 00:55:15,200
manuscript that their name was taken off

1463
00:55:19,670 --> 00:55:18,000
the paper oh that comments on my blog so

1464
00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:19,680
if you want to go and have a look and

1465
00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:21,839
comment go to skepticsbook.com and look

1466
00:55:27,910 --> 00:55:25,440
for the paper about breast cancer

1467
00:55:29,430 --> 00:55:27,920
and she said that she did analyses that

1468
00:55:31,750 --> 00:55:29,440
the authors didn't like because they

1469
00:55:34,309 --> 00:55:31,760
didn't suit their conclusions and so she

1470
00:55:36,549 --> 00:55:34,319
said i don't want to be a part of this

1471
00:55:39,109 --> 00:55:36,559
and i know some people on twitter

1472
00:55:40,950 --> 00:55:39,119
one is at medtech who's written to the

1473
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:40,960
md anderson cancer center and

1474
00:55:44,230 --> 00:55:42,720
specifically said to them

1475
00:55:45,109 --> 00:55:44,240
what are you doing putting your name to

1476
00:55:47,510 --> 00:55:45,119
this

1477
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:47,520
because the problem is now

1478
00:55:51,829 --> 00:55:49,440
it's being tabled in parliament as valid

1479
00:55:54,309 --> 00:55:51,839
evidence and it's completely flawed

1480
00:55:56,630 --> 00:55:54,319
completely flawed absolutely and i took

1481
00:55:58,390 --> 00:55:56,640
it to pieces and so did david gorski

1482
00:56:00,069 --> 00:55:58,400
and it should not be in the peer review

1483
00:56:00,950 --> 00:56:00,079
it should be retracted

1484
00:56:02,710 --> 00:56:00,960
i mean

1485
00:56:04,870 --> 00:56:02,720
michael brooks says in here we didn't

1486
00:56:06,710 --> 00:56:04,880
need andrew wakefield to show that the

1487
00:56:08,549 --> 00:56:06,720
way things currently run peer review is

1488
00:56:10,710 --> 00:56:08,559
a hugely flawed system

1489
00:56:12,789 --> 00:56:10,720
and it is it is yes you've commented

1490
00:56:14,710 --> 00:56:12,799
you've made that comment to me before

1491
00:56:16,630 --> 00:56:14,720
from personal experience yeah like two

1492
00:56:18,870 --> 00:56:16,640
days ago

1493
00:56:20,309 --> 00:56:18,880
when my paper got knocked back again i

1494
00:56:21,430 --> 00:56:20,319
can't help thinking of the words of carl

1495
00:56:24,549 --> 00:56:21,440
sagan

1496
00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:24,559
um the method of science is tried and

1497
00:56:28,230 --> 00:56:27,200
true it's not perfect but it's the best

1498
00:56:29,670 --> 00:56:28,240
we have

1499
00:56:31,349 --> 00:56:29,680
it's not perfect of course it's not

1500
00:56:33,910 --> 00:56:31,359
perfect well you know it's run by humans

1501
00:56:35,109 --> 00:56:33,920
and when we are not perfect creatures no

1502
00:56:37,270 --> 00:56:35,119
um but

1503
00:56:38,789 --> 00:56:37,280
interestingly on this um so that's been

1504
00:56:39,589 --> 00:56:38,799
tabled in parliament

1505
00:56:43,829 --> 00:56:39,599
as

1506
00:56:46,150 --> 00:56:43,839
cancer can be cured by the homeopathy

1507
00:56:47,990 --> 00:56:46,160
okay let me quote from this article

1508
00:56:49,510 --> 00:56:48,000
this study was mentioned in parliament

1509
00:56:51,349 --> 00:56:49,520
and the statement that homeopathy can

1510
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:51,359
kill cancer cells is now a matter of

1511
00:56:55,910 --> 00:56:53,760
public record in a spectacular failure

1512
00:56:58,309 --> 00:56:55,920
ah interestingly right

1513
00:57:00,309 --> 00:56:58,319
because there is actually an active act

1514
00:57:02,069 --> 00:57:00,319
of parliament i guess

1515
00:57:05,750 --> 00:57:02,079
i could be slightly wrong in the details

1516
00:57:06,630 --> 00:57:05,760
but the 1941 cancer act in the uk

1517
00:57:09,030 --> 00:57:06,640
um

1518
00:57:11,030 --> 00:57:09,040
mandates the ways you can claim to cure

1519
00:57:12,390 --> 00:57:11,040
cancer and a lot of cracks have been

1520
00:57:13,670 --> 00:57:12,400
prosecuted underneath that and i'm

1521
00:57:16,069 --> 00:57:13,680
wondering if this has been made under

1522
00:57:17,750 --> 00:57:16,079
parliamentary privilege privilege well

1523
00:57:19,190 --> 00:57:17,760
no actually

1524
00:57:21,829 --> 00:57:19,200
actually that's not the case jason

1525
00:57:24,470 --> 00:57:21,839
because the paper doesn't claim that ah

1526
00:57:27,190 --> 00:57:24,480
but everyone else's interpretation on it

1527
00:57:30,309 --> 00:57:28,630
i mean i'm not saying that you can be

1528
00:57:32,230 --> 00:57:30,319
prosecuted unless it's just interesting

1529
00:57:34,710 --> 00:57:32,240
that i don't know i haven't it's in the

1530
00:57:36,470 --> 00:57:34,720
uk on this i haven't heard what he said

1531
00:57:37,670 --> 00:57:36,480
particularly but all i can tell you is

1532
00:57:40,309 --> 00:57:37,680
that it says in this article from

1533
00:57:42,390 --> 00:57:40,319
michael brooks that he did say in

1534
00:57:43,990 --> 00:57:42,400
parliament homeopathy can kill cancer

1535
00:57:45,589 --> 00:57:44,000
cells

1536
00:57:47,670 --> 00:57:45,599
in defense of the evidence check that

1537
00:57:50,630 --> 00:57:47,680
happened a few months ago listeners

1538
00:57:53,270 --> 00:57:50,640
might at this stage want to run to their

1539
00:57:54,950 --> 00:57:53,280
computers and google james randy bbc

1540
00:57:57,270 --> 00:57:54,960
homeopathy

1541
00:57:59,910 --> 00:57:57,280
and see the video of where james randy

1542
00:58:01,030 --> 00:57:59,920
ran uh oh must have been almost 10 years

1543
00:58:03,510 --> 00:58:01,040
ago now

1544
00:58:04,549 --> 00:58:03,520
eight years ago whatever the case may be

1545
00:58:07,109 --> 00:58:04,559
did a

1546
00:58:10,069 --> 00:58:07,119
special for the bbc where he fairly

1547
00:58:12,630 --> 00:58:10,079
tested the claims of homeopathy and

1548
00:58:13,829 --> 00:58:12,640
guess what it was shown to be very

1549
00:58:15,829 --> 00:58:13,839
wanting

1550
00:58:17,910 --> 00:58:15,839
well it's interesting that you mentioned

1551
00:58:20,230 --> 00:58:17,920
that jason because the homeopath

1552
00:58:22,470 --> 00:58:20,240
involved in this case in perth uh

1553
00:58:25,990 --> 00:58:22,480
francine scream

1554
00:58:27,750 --> 00:58:26,000
uh it's illegal in new south wales to

1555
00:58:31,190 --> 00:58:27,760
claim to be able to treat untreatable

1556
00:58:33,030 --> 00:58:31,200
diseases with alternative medicine

1557
00:58:35,109 --> 00:58:33,040
so there's a potential that she may be

1558
00:58:38,630 --> 00:58:35,119
prosecuted in this case i don't know i'm

1559
00:58:41,030 --> 00:58:38,640
not a lawyer but she did tell this lady

1560
00:58:42,950 --> 00:58:41,040
uh you know mrs dingle not to take any

1561
00:58:44,390 --> 00:58:42,960
other medicine and that she could cure

1562
00:58:48,789 --> 00:58:44,400
her

1563
00:58:51,750 --> 00:58:48,799
not to well this is the sort of thing

1564
00:58:53,349 --> 00:58:51,760
that will come out in the inquest and

1565
00:58:55,190 --> 00:58:53,359
you know just to reiterate none of us

1566
00:58:57,190 --> 00:58:55,200
around the table are actually lawyers

1567
00:58:59,190 --> 00:58:57,200
so we can't comment and we certainly

1568
00:59:01,349 --> 00:58:59,200
don't know the full facts of the the

1569
00:59:03,190 --> 00:59:01,359
situation and um

1570
00:59:05,589 --> 00:59:03,200
we'll leave it at that because we'll

1571
00:59:07,829 --> 00:59:05,599
leave that up to our justice system and

1572
00:59:09,270 --> 00:59:07,839
see what happens but i just want to say

1573
00:59:11,349 --> 00:59:09,280
in closing that

1574
00:59:12,870 --> 00:59:11,359
i mean this is the case where the family

1575
00:59:13,990 --> 00:59:12,880
went to the coroner and said we want an

1576
00:59:16,150 --> 00:59:14,000
inquest

1577
00:59:18,390 --> 00:59:16,160
how many cases of this happens and

1578
00:59:19,829 --> 00:59:18,400
nobody bothers you know and i had a

1579
00:59:21,910 --> 00:59:19,839
journalist call me

1580
00:59:23,430 --> 00:59:21,920
about a year ago and say i'm trying to

1581
00:59:25,270 --> 00:59:23,440
find someone who's been damaged by

1582
00:59:26,870 --> 00:59:25,280
chiropractic when simon singh was coming

1583
00:59:27,990 --> 00:59:26,880
to australia and we were hosting his

1584
00:59:29,589 --> 00:59:28,000
talk

1585
00:59:30,950 --> 00:59:29,599
and i called a few people and they said

1586
00:59:33,109 --> 00:59:30,960
to me well they're either dead or

1587
00:59:35,030 --> 00:59:33,119
they're too embarrassed to talk about it

1588
00:59:36,789 --> 00:59:35,040
it's a it's an excellent point raging

1589
00:59:38,230 --> 00:59:36,799
one i haven't really thought through

1590
00:59:40,309 --> 00:59:38,240
actually

1591
00:59:43,510 --> 00:59:40,319
there must be thousands of cases of

1592
00:59:45,190 --> 00:59:43,520
damage or ill health or death

1593
00:59:47,030 --> 00:59:45,200
due to people

1594
00:59:49,990 --> 00:59:47,040
ignoring real medicine and turning to

1595
00:59:50,710 --> 00:59:50,000
quackery which simply are not reported

1596
00:59:52,630 --> 00:59:50,720
yeah

1597
00:59:53,589 --> 00:59:52,640
i mean i know people that have gone

1598
00:59:55,990 --> 00:59:53,599
through that

1599
00:59:58,390 --> 00:59:56,000
and it's not so much that they

1600
01:00:01,270 --> 00:59:58,400
died because of alternative medicine

1601
01:00:03,190 --> 01:00:01,280
it's because they

1602
01:00:05,670 --> 01:00:03,200
waited too long well no not just that

1603
01:00:07,190 --> 01:00:05,680
they had faith in it when

1604
01:00:09,190 --> 01:00:07,200
they knew they were going to die anyway

1605
01:00:10,950 --> 01:00:09,200
i mean if they have terminal illnesses

1606
01:00:14,789 --> 01:00:10,960
yeah

1607
01:00:14,799 --> 01:00:18,069
it's atmospheric

1608
01:00:18,079 --> 01:00:22,069
yes another plane

1609
01:00:25,829 --> 01:00:24,150
it's not sound effects folks rachel

1610
01:00:27,190 --> 01:00:25,839
really does live under the flight path

1611
01:00:28,950 --> 01:00:27,200
instead of um

1612
01:00:31,670 --> 01:00:28,960
courtesy bus announcements tonight we

1613
01:00:35,430 --> 01:00:33,829
but the thing that really

1614
01:00:36,950 --> 01:00:35,440
keeps me going and doing this stuff

1615
01:00:39,829 --> 01:00:36,960
richard is people that actually get

1616
01:00:41,510 --> 01:00:39,839
scammed by these things and

1617
01:00:43,190 --> 01:00:41,520
you know there's a there's a point where

1618
01:00:44,789 --> 01:00:43,200
you are so desperate and you are you

1619
01:00:47,190 --> 01:00:44,799
know you're going to die

1620
01:00:48,309 --> 01:00:47,200
that you do get sucked in by these

1621
01:00:50,309 --> 01:00:48,319
things and there has to be more

1622
01:00:52,390 --> 01:00:50,319
legislation to to stop this from

1623
01:00:56,549 --> 01:00:52,400
happening and i have not been in that

1624
01:00:58,630 --> 01:00:56,559
situation nor have you or jason or well

1625
01:01:02,150 --> 01:00:58,640
most people i know

1626
01:01:04,150 --> 01:01:02,160
uh randy was once it was on put to him

1627
01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:04,160
james randy was once put to him by

1628
01:01:07,829 --> 01:01:05,920
somebody in an audience

1629
01:01:09,750 --> 01:01:07,839
what if you were terminally ill would

1630
01:01:12,230 --> 01:01:09,760
you turn to some sort of alternative

1631
01:01:14,309 --> 01:01:12,240
stuff you know try something he said no

1632
01:01:16,069 --> 01:01:14,319
absolutely not i wouldn't waste my time

1633
01:01:17,990 --> 01:01:16,079
and money well you know what i couldn't

1634
01:01:19,349 --> 01:01:18,000
actually say i might

1635
01:01:21,270 --> 01:01:19,359
possibly

1636
01:01:24,150 --> 01:01:21,280
succumb to that i don't know yeah i

1637
01:01:26,789 --> 01:01:24,160
agree that's one of the things i say

1638
01:01:28,789 --> 01:01:26,799
i debate with christians and theists

1639
01:01:30,390 --> 01:01:28,799
quite a lot online and they say you wait

1640
01:01:31,589 --> 01:01:30,400
till you're on your deathbed and you'll

1641
01:01:33,750 --> 01:01:31,599
turn

1642
01:01:36,069 --> 01:01:33,760
and i just have to say well yeah maybe i

1643
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:36,079
will maybe i'll be a little bit crazy in

1644
01:01:39,670 --> 01:01:37,200
the head

1645
01:01:42,069 --> 01:01:39,680
how do i know if i'm about to die it's

1646
01:01:43,670 --> 01:01:42,079
it's a very good point we don't know we

1647
01:01:46,549 --> 01:01:43,680
would all hope that we would have the

1648
01:01:48,390 --> 01:01:46,559
presence of mind and the

1649
01:01:50,470 --> 01:01:48,400
logic and the intellect and all the rest

1650
01:01:52,230 --> 01:01:50,480
of it too well carry on one of the

1651
01:01:54,710 --> 01:01:52,240
things that's come out of this and prior

1652
01:01:56,150 --> 01:01:54,720
to this also in response to the evidence

1653
01:01:57,670 --> 01:01:56,160
check in the uk

1654
01:01:59,670 --> 01:01:57,680
is that there is some movement now in

1655
01:02:02,150 --> 01:01:59,680
australia to change laws

1656
01:02:03,349 --> 01:02:02,160
and in this particular case with mrs

1657
01:02:05,589 --> 01:02:03,359
dingle

1658
01:02:07,589 --> 01:02:05,599
the coroner has said that he may

1659
01:02:09,510 --> 01:02:07,599
start making new laws that this stuff

1660
01:02:11,750 --> 01:02:09,520
can't happen so

1661
01:02:13,670 --> 01:02:11,760
it took a tragedy for that to happen

1662
01:02:15,109 --> 01:02:13,680
but let's hope that something will

1663
01:02:18,549 --> 01:02:15,119
change in australia in terms of

1664
01:02:20,470 --> 01:02:18,559
homeopathy and ken harvey dr ken harvey

1665
01:02:22,150 --> 01:02:20,480
has been absolutely vocal about this for

1666
01:02:24,069 --> 01:02:22,160
a number of years and i hope that we can

1667
01:02:25,990 --> 01:02:24,079
get some changes soon

1668
01:02:27,589 --> 01:02:26,000
you know what i'm optimistic i think we

1669
01:02:29,030 --> 01:02:27,599
will i think there are enough people

1670
01:02:32,309 --> 01:02:29,040
like um

1671
01:02:34,710 --> 01:02:32,319
like our friends and and um

1672
01:02:36,870 --> 01:02:34,720
loretta loretta the jellybean lady of

1673
01:02:38,230 --> 01:02:36,880
course who are fighting very hard about

1674
01:02:39,430 --> 01:02:38,240
this sort of thing

1675
01:02:41,910 --> 01:02:39,440
that yes

1676
01:02:43,030 --> 01:02:41,920
we have every reason to be optimistic

1677
01:02:45,349 --> 01:02:43,040
but

1678
01:02:47,670 --> 01:02:45,359
on that upbeat note on that opportunity

1679
01:02:50,069 --> 01:02:47,680
let's be optimistic since our pizzas

1680
01:02:52,870 --> 01:02:50,079
have arrived delicious i couldn't help

1681
01:02:55,109 --> 01:02:52,880
but notice they've come through the door

1682
01:02:57,270 --> 01:02:55,119
i'd like to thank jason thank you jason

1683
01:02:58,789 --> 01:02:57,280
thank you richard lovely to see you dr

1684
01:03:01,109 --> 01:02:58,799
hd thank you for letting us use your

1685
01:03:02,390 --> 01:03:01,119
front room you're welcome sorry for the

1686
01:03:04,710 --> 01:03:02,400
plane noises

1687
01:03:06,309 --> 01:03:04,720
no it's part of the charm and a very

1688
01:03:07,910 --> 01:03:06,319
special thank you to our listeners out

1689
01:03:10,069 --> 01:03:07,920
there who um

1690
01:03:11,829 --> 01:03:10,079
i i hope enjoy the show

1691
01:03:14,309 --> 01:03:11,839
and and a lot of you

1692
01:03:16,549 --> 01:03:14,319
i'm very pleased to say contribute by

1693
01:03:19,349 --> 01:03:16,559
donations which is very kind of you and

1694
01:03:20,630 --> 01:03:19,359
very much appreciated and listeners who

1695
01:03:23,510 --> 01:03:20,640
subscribe

1696
01:03:24,870 --> 01:03:23,520
less than a dollar an episode but and

1697
01:03:27,750 --> 01:03:24,880
those listeners

1698
01:03:28,630 --> 01:03:27,760
believe me your money is very well spent

1699
01:03:34,390 --> 01:03:28,640
we

1700
01:03:38,789 --> 01:03:36,710
and big wine apparently big wine and big

1701
01:03:42,470 --> 01:03:38,799
karma but no

1702
01:03:45,029 --> 01:03:42,480
no seriously that is big wine

1703
01:03:46,870 --> 01:03:45,039
it's a new one

1704
01:03:48,309 --> 01:03:46,880
um i like big wine

1705
01:03:50,549 --> 01:03:48,319
the bigger the better

1706
01:03:52,150 --> 01:03:50,559
your contributing

1707
01:03:54,390 --> 01:03:52,160
oh dude it's time for pizza your

1708
01:03:57,190 --> 01:03:54,400
contributions really do help keep this

1709
01:03:59,430 --> 01:03:57,200
show going and it's a symbol of your

1710
01:04:01,430 --> 01:03:59,440
support and your

1711
01:04:03,029 --> 01:04:01,440
appreciation of what we're doing week

1712
01:04:05,190 --> 01:04:03,039
after week after week

1713
01:04:07,589 --> 01:04:05,200
believe me we love it

1714
01:04:09,670 --> 01:04:07,599
uh i can't imagine not doing the show

1715
01:04:11,910 --> 01:04:09,680
because it means so much to me and to

1716
01:04:13,670 --> 01:04:11,920
you i think dr h

1717
01:04:16,470 --> 01:04:13,680
and to our listeners so thank you very

1718
01:04:18,470 --> 01:04:16,480
much if you are so moved

1719
01:04:20,630 --> 01:04:18,480
um by the show and you think we're doing

1720
01:04:21,750 --> 01:04:20,640
a good job please visit our website and

1721
01:04:23,510 --> 01:04:21,760
um

1722
01:04:25,029 --> 01:04:23,520
think about clicking on the subscription

1723
01:04:27,589 --> 01:04:25,039
list

1724
01:04:30,309 --> 01:04:27,599
less than a dollar a week

1725
01:04:32,950 --> 01:04:30,319
less than a cup of coffee as we say

1726
01:04:35,109 --> 01:04:32,960
do we we do well then yeah it's a lot

1727
01:04:37,510 --> 01:04:35,119
less than a cup but there's a lot less

1728
01:04:39,670 --> 01:04:37,520
these days but dr rachie and jason thank

1729
01:05:38,549 --> 01:04:39,680
you and cheers cheers

1730
01:05:42,069 --> 01:05:40,069
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1731
01:05:44,549 --> 01:05:42,079
zone and thank you to all those people

1732
01:05:46,630 --> 01:05:44,559
who turned up to watch our very own dr

1733
01:05:48,870 --> 01:05:46,640
chrissy wilson give her talk at london

1734
01:05:50,789 --> 01:05:48,880
skeptics in the pub by all accounts a

1735
01:05:53,190 --> 01:05:50,799
great evening we look forward to some

1736
01:05:55,109 --> 01:05:53,200
reports from dr chrissy very soon

1737
01:05:57,349 --> 01:05:55,119
so please join us again next week for

1738
01:05:59,670 --> 01:05:57,359
the next episode of the skeptic zone

1739
01:06:01,190 --> 01:05:59,680
until then this is richard saunders

1740
01:06:03,510 --> 01:06:01,200
signing off and looking forward to

1741
01:06:07,910 --> 01:06:03,520
seeing you all at town las vegas from

1742
01:06:11,589 --> 01:06:09,589
you've been listening to the skeptic

1743
01:06:14,950 --> 01:06:11,599
zone visit our website at